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United Airlines Threatens to Engage Collections for Passengers Who Skip Segments

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Re: United Airlines Threatens to Engage Collections for Passengers Who Skip Segments

#41

Post by jakebasile »

leelin wrote: post #30

One point in defense of the airlines that people often forget. There are certain taxes and fees the airlines must pay when a passenger flies from A to B. However, the government of location B waives fees for connections flying from A to B to C. That makes sense; the passenger never actually visited B. Passengers can find a cheaper ticket flying JFK->TPE->HKG and ditching the final leg (carry-on only). However, if an…

But they have plausible deniability since the customer indicated they were taking the last leg of the flight. The possible tax issues should be on the customer here, right?

Re: United Airlines Threatens to Engage Collections for Passengers Who Skip Segments

#42

Post by [deleted] »

Someone1234 wrote: post #7

I doubt UA would follow through considering it is illegal to submit known false debts. Plus they're outright wrong that it constitutes "fraud," if for no other reason than the person skipping additional legs didn't profit from it, instead they simply limited UA's ability to further profit off of their travel. If this was "fraud" then any other airline discount or saving would be too. Shop around for the cheapest pric…

[deleted]

Re: United Airlines Threatens to Engage Collections for Passengers Who Skip Segments

#44

Post by drak0n1c »

mynameisvlad wrote: post #26
ben1040 wrote: post #11

Sometimes I go to a fast food restaurant and discover that while I don't want fries, it's cheaper to buy the whole combo meal than it is to just buy a burger and drink a la carte. If I buy the combo and throw away the fries, nobody's going to argue that I've cheated Wendy's and owe them for the difference in price. But I'd agree they're still free to refuse me service in the future on grounds of wasting food.

Technically, the equivalent is telling them to "keep the fries" since airlines can then re-sell your ticket or offer it to standby customers.

Not really - the vast majority of people who engage in this behavior do not notify the airline that they aren't showing up. The pool of standbys for the average flight is typically tiny or non-existent, and it's practically impossible to find a buyer for a ticket within the 15 minutes that airlines might be allowed to invalidate a paid customer's reservation and resell it.

Wasted seats on flights is a much bigger environmental problem than wasted fries.

Re: United Airlines Threatens to Engage Collections for Passengers Who Skip Segments

#45

Post by tempestn »

qwerty456127 wrote: post #37

Why does this even exist? Why won't they just sell A-to-B tickets always cheaper than A-to-B-to-C?

The article covers this. The short answer though is price discrimination. Airlines want to sell tickets for the most total money they can. There is more demand for A-to-B tickets than for A-to-C tickets, so they are able to charge more. As long as selling A-to-C tickets is marginally profitable though, they will do that as well, even though the price is lower, and regardless of the fact that the most efficient way for them to move people from A-to-C is through B.

Basically airlines will charge what the market will bear; their costs on a given route don't really factor into it, except in as much as they won't generally fly routes that aren't profitable.

Re: United Airlines Threatens to Engage Collections for Passengers Who Skip Segments

#46

Post by belltaco »

mynameisvlad wrote: post #26
ben1040 wrote: post #11

Sometimes I go to a fast food restaurant and discover that while I don't want fries, it's cheaper to buy the whole combo meal than it is to just buy a burger and drink a la carte. If I buy the combo and throw away the fries, nobody's going to argue that I've cheated Wendy's and owe them for the difference in price. But I'd agree they're still free to refuse me service in the future on grounds of wasting food.

Technically, the equivalent is telling them to "keep the fries" since airlines can then re-sell your ticket or offer it to standby customers.

Isn't it pretty late to re-sell the ticket if you don't show up? It helps them with overbooking, standby customers, fuel costs and increased comfort to other passengers though.

Re: United Airlines Threatens to Engage Collections for Passengers Who Skip Segments

#47

Post by craftyguy »

nneonneo wrote: post #19
StavrosK wrote: post #5

One very interesting thing here is how they're using the credit score system to blackmail people. If this continues, any company can hold you hostage by threatening to ruin your score, without any recourse from you.

Nah, this isn't a legal debt that they can forward to a collection agency, as pointed out in the article. They can't legally ding your credit for this (you've paid all your actual outstanding obligations to them), and if they do, I imagine the counterclaims could be significant (reputational damage, monetary losses due to higher interest rates or ineligible loans, etc.). Now, if this were the "social credit" system o…

> then maybe they really could blackmail you (because you violated a "social order" by playing ticketing games...).

Airlines should, conversely, have terrible social credit scores for selling tickets to people and then bumping them from a flight they paid for.

Re: United Airlines Threatens to Engage Collections for Passengers Who Skip Segments

#48

Post by nategri »

maxxxxx wrote: post #12
Someone1234 wrote: post #7

I doubt UA would follow through considering it is illegal to submit known false debts. Plus they're outright wrong that it constitutes "fraud," if for no other reason than the person skipping additional legs didn't profit from it, instead they simply limited UA's ability to further profit off of their travel. If this was "fraud" then any other airline discount or saving would be too. Shop around for the cheapest pric…

How about selling a ticket and then telling me I can't get on the flight because it's overbooked. Is that fraud too?

Get em, max

Re: United Airlines Threatens to Engage Collections for Passengers Who Skip Segments

#49

Post by otterley »

Someone1234 wrote: post #7

I doubt UA would follow through considering it is illegal to submit known false debts. Plus they're outright wrong that it constitutes "fraud," if for no other reason than the person skipping additional legs didn't profit from it, instead they simply limited UA's ability to further profit off of their travel. If this was "fraud" then any other airline discount or saving would be too. Shop around for the cheapest pric…

Attorney here! (Not providing legal advice, though.)

The elements of common law civil fraud are as follows:

1. Somebody intentionally misrepresents a material fact in order to obtain action or forbearance by another person ("I am traveling to ILM from SFO" but in fact is going to IAD);

2. The other person relies upon the misrepresentation (United prices the fare as though the passenger were going to ILM instead of IAD); and

3. The other person suffers injury as a result of the act or forbearance taken in reliance upon the misrepresentation (United gets less fare).

Note that profit is not an element of fraud, although here, one could argue that the potential fraudster did profit in terms of the difference in fare.

So United has a fair argument that, given the facts at hand, intentionally misrepresenting one's travel plans in order to obtain a better fare probably constitutes fraud.

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