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Legless Japanese businessmen: the photographer who caught a Tokyo epidemic

theguardian.com

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Re: Legless Japanese businessmen: the photographer who caught a Tokyo epidemic

#41

Post by simias »

mlrtime wrote: post #20
ekianjo wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> street does seem to be a thing in Tokyo it is not specific to Tokyo at all. Go to the center of Osaka, you will find drunk salarymen every day of the week.

You seem to be very passionate that the article is somehow misguided. However I, and a lot of others on this site have lived and visited large metropolitan cities all over the world. I can clearly remember seeing passed out men in suits in Tokyo and no where else in the world (anecdote). There are passed out people in other cities, but not businessmen in suits. The article clearly states that the photographers criter…

I don't quite understand your comment, Osaka is in Japan so ekianjo wasn't really dismissing the claim of the parent. Furthermore they provide interesting context as to why this might be more prevalent in Japan in other comments in this submission. I don't really see them being "very passionate that the article is somehow misguided", just adding some much needed context for people like me who have never set foot in the land of the rising sun.

Re: Legless Japanese businessmen: the photographer who caught a Tokyo epidemic

#42

Post by Latteland »

Freak_NL wrote: post #4
emiliobumachar wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your theory should apply to any huge city where drinking is not taboo. I've visited a few huge cities in North and South America dozens of times over my lifetime. I do not remember ever seeing people in non-ragged suits sleeping rough. Is anyone else's experience different? If this is specific to Japan, that's worth pointing out, even if the explanation is speculative and may well be wrong. Any other theories?

Some background: the chance of getting pick-pocketed or molested is much smaller than in other cities of a comparable size worldwide, and the Japanese practice a form of privacy where such embarrassing scenes are visible but not seen . Those guys will wake up in the morning, purchase a ready-made set of clean shirt, deodorant, and tie in a shop, and go back to the office.

Wow. Why is that not available in my american city? Spill something on my shirt (yes, I am a cliched computer programmer), and go buy an easy replacement? I want that.

Re: Legless Japanese businessmen: the photographer who caught a Tokyo epidemic

#43

Post by simias »

SmellyGeekBoy wrote: post #26
bsaul wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i think you forgot that tokyo is one of the safest city. Those people won’t get robbed or mugged. Try that in Paris and you’ll wake up naked on the pavement.

Or dead.

Well homeless people do die in parisian streets in the cold winter days but beyond that I really doubt that you'd be very likely to get killed sleeping on a bench in France (or frankly in most civilized places in the world, why would people randomly kill people in the street?). You'd probably end up with a cold though, parisian nights are seldom hot enough to comfortably sleep without any protection. Regardless I wouldn't exactly advise doing it, theft is definitely possible.

Re: Legless Japanese businessmen: the photographer who caught a Tokyo epidemic

#44

Post by TorKlingberg »

The straight forward reasons:

* Japan is pretty safe. While it's not a good idea to sleep rough, you won't end up dead.

* The climate is rather mild. Unless it's mid-winter or a during a typhoon, the weather won't kill you either. * The culture of drinking after work.

* Lower alcohol tolerance, so it's easier to accidentally drink too much.

* That the Tokyo metro doesn't run at night, and many people live far from work.

Perhaps more interesting:

* A lot of people in Japan wear a business suit daily, but make very little money. Most people wear a suite to work unless it requires a uniform. Even then they might go to work in a suit and change.

* In general Japanese society is not class-aware. There are big economic differences, but you cannot immediately tell what somebody’s social class is.

* There isn't much of an underclass to provide cheap hotels and taxis.

Re: Legless Japanese businessmen: the photographer who caught a Tokyo epidemic

#45

Post by KineticLensman »

leejo wrote: post #23
moioci wrote: post #19

Just commenting to point out the use of "legless" to mean extremely drunk. I found this in an online dictionary, but it's new to me. Maybe it's a regional thing.

British colloquial. See also: pissed, rat-arsed, smashed, hammered, wrecked, and possibly others.

> possibly others

Brit here. Off the top of my head: 'bladdered', 'blotto', 'hammered', 'pie-eyed', 'pissed as a newt', 'ratted', 'sloshed', 'squiffy', 'sozzled', 'trollied', 'wasted', 'wellied'

These typically result from a night 'on the lash' or 'on the piss',

Re: Legless Japanese businessmen: the photographer who caught a Tokyo epidemic

#46

Post by bliblah »

kasperni wrote: post #21

Imagined the shitstorm if someone went around taking picture of collage-aged girls passed out on the pavement, and published them it in a book..... Yes, they have passed out in public. But I still think people have some right to privacy.

Don't know how the law works in Japan, but public streets are well...public spaces. In most places you need to have a reasonable expectation of privacy before being able to use this defense.

Also this is an effective way to name and shame people against acting in such a way in public if you wish to do so. Some would argue that if you wish to avoid such a situation you should hold your drink better. Though that could just be passing the blame on the victim.

Note that this is not my personal opinion on the matter.

Re: Legless Japanese businessmen: the photographer who caught a Tokyo epidemic

#47

Post by mnky9800n »

emiliobumachar wrote: post #3
ekianjo wrote: post #2

> When the train has gone and a hotel is too expensive pavements and benches are the only option. of course not. In japan you have tons of options to spend a night in town for a few bucks. Go in a Karaoke at night, or an internet cafe (even some are "boxed" so that you have decent privacy to doze off)... it's far from being difficult. That is also why internet cafes have showers available... > . But in the deferentia…

Your theory should apply to any huge city where drinking is not taboo. I've visited a few huge cities in North and South America dozens of times over my lifetime. I do not remember ever seeing people in non-ragged suits sleeping rough. Is anyone else's experience different? If this is specific to Japan, that's worth pointing out, even if the explanation is speculative and may well be wrong. Any other theories?

I'm willing to bet all the cities you visited have higher rates of crime than Tokyo.

Re: Legless Japanese businessmen: the photographer who caught a Tokyo epidemic

#48

Post by mnky9800n »

bliblah wrote: post #46
kasperni wrote: post #21

Imagined the shitstorm if someone went around taking picture of collage-aged girls passed out on the pavement, and published them it in a book..... Yes, they have passed out in public. But I still think people have some right to privacy.

Don't know how the law works in Japan, but public streets are well...public spaces. In most places you need to have a reasonable expectation of privacy before being able to use this defense. Also this is an effective way to name and shame people against acting in such a way in public if you wish to do so. Some would argue that if you wish to avoid such a situation you should hold your drink better. Though that could…

It's basically illegal to take a picture of a person without their permission.

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/community/2017/01/22/how-tos/re...

Re: Legless Japanese businessmen: the photographer who caught a Tokyo epidemic

#49

Post by cjhopman »

stef25 wrote: post #30

The famous capsule hotels are made specifically for people who missed their last train home. Tiny spaces but comfy, cheap and clean. You even get a pair of PJs, toothbrush and soap. It's a great system. The photographer and / or Guardian author can't seem to make the distinction between workers who got so smashed they pass out on the street, and workers who just missed their train. The latter certainly aren't going t…

Right. They definitely didn't understand that these passed out people were drunk. They probably just got lucky including "Legless" in the title. From Collins dictionary "If you say that someone is legless, you mean that they are extremely drunk." And only in a couple places do they even mention how much these businessmen drink and how drunk they must be.

Re: Legless Japanese businessmen: the photographer who caught a Tokyo epidemic

#50

Post by cobbzilla »

ekianjo wrote: post #10
cobbzilla wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Options or not, salarymen sleeping on the street does seem to be a thing in Tokyo. This is far from the first article I’ve seen about it. As for an explanation of the behavior, I don’t think that was the point. This photographer is less interested in “the answer”, but is presenting “the question” in a new way. If you found it provocative then it worked.

> street does seem to be a thing in Tokyo it is not specific to Tokyo at all. Go to the center of Osaka, you will find drunk salarymen every day of the week.

Sorry I typed hastily, I’d only had first hand experience of it in Tokyo; my mistake; agree this is an more generic urban phenomenon.
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