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Trapped by the ‘Walmart of Heroin’

nytimes.com

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Re: Trapped by the ‘Walmart of Heroin’

#41

Post by User23 »

cgb223 wrote: post #24
rwmj wrote: post #2

A problem that could easily be solved by simply prescribing them all heroin. This was successful when it was done in the UK ( https://health.spectator.co.uk/the-case-for-prescription-her... ) although of course the government eventually shut it down.

How do you think people would react to a major corporation selling heroin? Is that going well for the existing companies selling OxyContin? Is it going well for the people prescribed it, or are they abusing/ODing on that as well?

You mean for example Bayer? They lost the Heroin trademark the same time they lost the Aspirin trademark, due to the war. Both were a product of the acetylate all the things school of medicinal chemistry.

Re: Trapped by the ‘Walmart of Heroin’

#42

Post by nyolfen »

User23 wrote: post #41
cgb223 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you think people would react to a major corporation selling heroin? Is that going well for the existing companies selling OxyContin? Is it going well for the people prescribed it, or are they abusing/ODing on that as well?

You mean for example Bayer? They lost the Heroin trademark the same time they lost the Aspirin trademark, due to the war. Both were a product of the acetylate all the things school of medicinal chemistry.

yes, for instance bayer, a company that still regularly gets trotted out to highlight the evils of pharma companies for among other things selling heroin one hundred years ago

Re: Trapped by the ‘Walmart of Heroin’

#44

Post by dgemm »

ams6110 wrote: post #29
Itaxpica wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, the one thing that all of those countries have in common is universal healthcare. "Treat addiction as a disease and prescribe heroin for it" doesn't really work so well when the overwhelming majority of addicts most likely don't have insurance or the means to pay for medical treatment out-of-pocket.

They are also all quite small, and much more culturally and ethnically homogenous.

Germany is more than two Californias in American units, not that small.

Re: Trapped by the ‘Walmart of Heroin’

#45

Post by dzmien »

rwmj wrote: post #2

A problem that could easily be solved by simply prescribing them all heroin. This was successful when it was done in the UK ( https://health.spectator.co.uk/the-case-for-prescription-her... ) although of course the government eventually shut it down.

The closest we have here is methadone. I am proud to say that I have managed to stay the fuck out of Kensington for almost three years. I could not have done it without methadone.

Re: Trapped by the ‘Walmart of Heroin’

#46

Post by koverstreet »

stephengillie wrote: post #39
retsibsi wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you can't just wave a magic wand and cure all of someone's problems, and because being a heroin addict with a reliable, legal, relatively safe supply is probably a lot less bad than being a heroin addict without that. And why are you assuming that these people are not getting any other help? The two aren't mutually exclusive. In fact, not having to deal with all of the risks and stresses of scoring illicit dr…

> And why are you assuming that these people are not getting any other help? To the contrary, I'm wondering how effective is this help, if it fails to wean someone after 20 years. Or, there must be some constant influx of new users.

Is your goal to get people to stop using drugs, no matter what? Because we've seen how well that's worked in the U.S.

If they're solving all the other problems in these addict's lives - if they're able to be functioning members of society - isn't that enough? Why would you upset all that progress by making stopping drugs priority #1?

Re: Trapped by the ‘Walmart of Heroin’

#47

Post by jowsie »

koverstreet wrote: post #46
stephengillie wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And why are you assuming that these people are not getting any other help? To the contrary, I'm wondering how effective is this help, if it fails to wean someone after 20 years. Or, there must be some constant influx of new users.

Is your goal to get people to stop using drugs, no matter what? Because we've seen how well that's worked in the U.S. If they're solving all the other problems in these addict's lives - if they're able to be functioning members of society - isn't that enough? Why would you upset all that progress by making stopping drugs priority #1?

A lot of people are still under the impression that using Heroin daily has extremely damaging physical effects along the lines of a serious meth habit. A lack of education about the issue is what leads to this kind of outrage, ime.

Re: Trapped by the ‘Walmart of Heroin’

#48

Post by jowsie »

cgb223 wrote: post #24
rwmj wrote: post #2

A problem that could easily be solved by simply prescribing them all heroin. This was successful when it was done in the UK ( https://health.spectator.co.uk/the-case-for-prescription-her... ) although of course the government eventually shut it down.

How do you think people would react to a major corporation selling heroin? Is that going well for the existing companies selling OxyContin? Is it going well for the people prescribed it, or are they abusing/ODing on that as well?

You do realise that heroin is still used in hospitals all across the world on a daily basis for routine surgeries. A company is making and selling that heroin.

Re: Trapped by the ‘Walmart of Heroin’

#49

Post by imtringued »

stephengillie wrote: post #30
xkcd-sucks wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Predisposed to addiction" is how we say it in the industry, and it really means "has a shitty life." The diagnostic criteria for addiction are whether the person can't stop doing the thing despite wanting to, and whether doing the thing causes problems. If they're stable-- whether on or off medication of any kind including opiates-- then the addiction is considered successfully managed. Also, mental illnesses are ne…

So, instead of helping these people with their "predisposition", these countries are helping with their habit. How is this admirable?

Street drugs cause loss of life, health problems and financial distress which leads to an increasing population of chronically homeless people, higher medical costs, loss of tax income, theft or becoming drug dealers themselves to pay for drugs, etc.

Imagine for one second that you could solve all of these problems at once with medical grade drugs and all you have to do is let drug addicts visit a doctor regularly. How is this not admirable?

Re: Trapped by the ‘Walmart of Heroin’

#50

Post by imtringued »

stephengillie wrote: post #39
retsibsi wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you can't just wave a magic wand and cure all of someone's problems, and because being a heroin addict with a reliable, legal, relatively safe supply is probably a lot less bad than being a heroin addict without that. And why are you assuming that these people are not getting any other help? The two aren't mutually exclusive. In fact, not having to deal with all of the risks and stresses of scoring illicit dr…

> And why are you assuming that these people are not getting any other help? To the contrary, I'm wondering how effective is this help, if it fails to wean someone after 20 years. Or, there must be some constant influx of new users.

Why does it matter if they stay addicted? As I already said all the downsides of drug use are fully avoided by using medical grade drugs. It's like eating fast food without getting fat.
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