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Climate report: Scientists politely urge 'act now, idiots'

bbc.com

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Re: Climate report: Scientists politely urge 'act now, idiots'

#41

Post by cxseven »

lachlan-sneff wrote: post #10
NeedMoreTea wrote: post #7

Britain has just approved restarting fracking. Germany wants to demolish ancient forest to mine more lignite for power stations. The US wants to save the coal mining industry. The North West passage is almost ice free in summer. Australia's coal exports are booming. IPCC thinks it will need 2.5% of global GDP for 20 years to fix. Act now? It still doesn't seem like any of the world's electable politicians even believ…

To mars, luna, and orbital platforms we go!

There's not going to be anything more hospitable than Earth for a long time, long enough for the warnings here to come true and then some.

Re: Climate report: Scientists politely urge 'act now, idiots'

#42

Post by camgunz »

malloryerik wrote: post #30
camgunz wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I admit to being tired of this vague moralizing. We're in this mess because of corrupt energy industries and fucked up factory farming on a global scale, not because I like chicken nuggets. There is absolutely zero chance that we avoid global warming because enough people voluntarily switched to a vegetarian diet. It's a non-solution, just like everyone biking, turning their a/c to 85 and heaters to 60, etc etc. It w…

Shrill messages can and do backfire, but I think there might be a point to add. If we go vegetarian, as an example, we're likely promoting new vegetarian industries which then can create real alternatives for wider and wider groups of people. For example if people start a craze for foods made from kelp and it spreads, then it can become a part of larger government-arranged action. The same is true for alternative ene…

> Meanwhile you'll agree that the consumer is indeed the most important part of any economic activity, and that they often have the most choice

I actually disagree. I think it's difficult to be a healthy vegetarian (let alone a vegan) if you're in rural or poorer areas, as the majority of the US and indeed the world are. Most people aren't choosing their diets, they're eating what they can, or succumbing to billions of dollars of advertising carefully crafted to hypnotize them into brand loyalty to corporations dependent on factory farming. It's a fundamental flaw in market-based thinking: consumers often don't have serious choices or the information or resources to make good ones.

It's also a convenient escape hatch for irresponsible corporations and corrupt governments. "Well we agree there's a problem, but we can't fix it without unethical market regulations".

Re: Climate report: Scientists politely urge 'act now, idiots'

#43

Post by pongogogo »

camgunz wrote: post #21
jamesgagan wrote: post #14

Stop eating animals. Governments are slow to act, but switching to a plant based diet is something you can do right now.

I admit to being tired of this vague moralizing. We're in this mess because of corrupt energy industries and fucked up factory farming on a global scale, not because I like chicken nuggets. There is absolutely zero chance that we avoid global warming because enough people voluntarily switched to a vegetarian diet. It's a non-solution, just like everyone biking, turning their a/c to 85 and heaters to 60, etc etc. It w…

Most of the startups we've seen grow massively in the last decade through word of mouth have been because people make a change and then tell others about it, i.e. viral growth.

If you switch to become veggie and start biking, and persuade >1 others to do the same, we should see exponential growth and you will have played your part in a substantial change for society.

I don't think it needs government intervention. The reasons to do it are compelling enough on their own with a little research. Look into it and consider making the change.

Re: Climate report: Scientists politely urge 'act now, idiots'

#44

Post by dorchadas »

camgunz wrote: post #42
malloryerik wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shrill messages can and do backfire, but I think there might be a point to add. If we go vegetarian, as an example, we're likely promoting new vegetarian industries which then can create real alternatives for wider and wider groups of people. For example if people start a craze for foods made from kelp and it spreads, then it can become a part of larger government-arranged action. The same is true for alternative ene…

> Meanwhile you'll agree that the consumer is indeed the most important part of any economic activity, and that they often have the most choice I actually disagree. I think it's difficult to be a healthy vegetarian (let alone a vegan) if you're in rural or poorer areas, as the majority of the US and indeed the world are. Most people aren't choosing their diets, they're eating what they can, or succumbing to billions…

My biggest issue with living in the South and (slowly) shifting vegetarian is restaurants. I want to go out and eat with my friends, but most of them just don't have good vegetarian options, and it's really annoying. It's part of the reason why I haven't completely gone vegetarian yet.

Re: Climate report: Scientists politely urge 'act now, idiots'

#45

Post by camgunz »

pongogogo wrote: post #43
camgunz wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I admit to being tired of this vague moralizing. We're in this mess because of corrupt energy industries and fucked up factory farming on a global scale, not because I like chicken nuggets. There is absolutely zero chance that we avoid global warming because enough people voluntarily switched to a vegetarian diet. It's a non-solution, just like everyone biking, turning their a/c to 85 and heaters to 60, etc etc. It w…

Most of the startups we've seen grow massively in the last decade through word of mouth have been because people make a change and then tell others about it, i.e. viral growth. If you switch to become veggie and start biking, and persuade >1 others to do the same, we should see exponential growth and you will have played your part in a substantial change for society. I don't think it needs government intervention. Th…

This is generally because either it makes sense economically (YouTube dropped video distribution costs to zero), you avoid some unpleasantness (grubhub), or you're psychologically manipulated to more or less be addicted to a service (Facebook) -- in many cases all of the above. Network effects of going vegetarian are minimal, and have been since there's been meat.

It absolutely needs government intervention. For decades scientists have been warning about climate change and diets have not changed. If you look at any region with meaningful impact you'll see it's 100% due to regulation, whether that's penalties for bad garbage practices, penalties for water or electricity waste, etc. There is simply no way we crowdsource this, and my evidence is that we've had almost 40 years to do it and haven't even come close.

Re: Climate report: Scientists politely urge 'act now, idiots'

#46

Post by camgunz »

dorchadas wrote: post #44
camgunz wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Meanwhile you'll agree that the consumer is indeed the most important part of any economic activity, and that they often have the most choice I actually disagree. I think it's difficult to be a healthy vegetarian (let alone a vegan) if you're in rural or poorer areas, as the majority of the US and indeed the world are. Most people aren't choosing their diets, they're eating what they can, or succumbing to billions…

My biggest issue with living in the South and (slowly) shifting vegetarian is restaurants. I want to go out and eat with my friends, but most of them just don't have good vegetarian options, and it's really annoying. It's part of the reason why I haven't completely gone vegetarian yet.

I was vegetarian for years and basically lived on fries and bad salads. I feel your pain haha.

Re: Climate report: Scientists politely urge 'act now, idiots'

#47

Post by singularity2001 »

AstralStorm wrote: post #37
singularity2001 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the human body very inefficient the human brain uses 20 watts and has more computational power than the best supercomputer, so you should be careful. how far does a car go with 1 yogurt?

Suppose it is a sweet yogurt and has 300 kcal in a package (1 kcal/ml) and we use bioethanol in a car, it is a match 1:1. Ignoring conversion losses and metabolism, a car taking 6l/100km and a trained human on foot would go some 12 km on this. (human on a bicycle is comparable to a specially designed ecocar) A fully manned car (5 persons) or a loaded truck wins by a good margin even over a tandem or cargo bike. A bus…

> how far does a car go with 1 yogurt?

wow, didn't expect actual coaster approximation

Re: Climate report: Scientists politely urge 'act now, idiots'

#48

Post by lachlan-sneff »

cxseven wrote: post #41
lachlan-sneff wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To mars, luna, and orbital platforms we go!

There's not going to be anything more hospitable than Earth for a long time, long enough for the warnings here to come true and then some.

Doesn't hurt to spread out though.

Re: Climate report: Scientists politely urge 'act now, idiots'

#49

Post by zygotic12 »

arthurcolle wrote: post #8
latch wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's disappointing that such a political system is necessary for individuals to act responsibly, ethically and morally.

Welcome to [REDACTED], land of the free and home to the brave.

Dang (https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/dang) arthurcolle I too have been damned.

Re: Climate report: Scientists politely urge 'act now, idiots'

#50

Post by NeedMoreTea »

zaarn wrote: post #32
NeedMoreTea wrote: post #7

Britain has just approved restarting fracking. Germany wants to demolish ancient forest to mine more lignite for power stations. The US wants to save the coal mining industry. The North West passage is almost ice free in summer. Australia's coal exports are booming. IPCC thinks it will need 2.5% of global GDP for 20 years to fix. Act now? It still doesn't seem like any of the world's electable politicians even believ…

>Germany wants to demolish ancient forest to mine more lignite for power stations. It isn't Germany, the RWE corporation wants this because in the near future they will loose the ability to mine coal in that area, so they'll happily pay off politicians and raze the forest to get at whatever coal is down there until the time's up. The easy and most efficient solution to all these problems it to outlaw oil and coal now…

Good point, though from memory of news reports the energy minister is in favour. I imagine it's far less popular with the public.

In light of this morning's IPCC report I think you are right with the second point. An outright ban may soon cause less auxiliary damage than trying to encourage economies (i.e. ignoring the issue)

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