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The Board Game of the Alpha Nerds (2014)

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Re: The Board Game of the Alpha Nerds (2014)

#41

Post by cableshaft »

tormeh wrote: post #33
cableshaft wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been brutally betrayed twice in Diplomacy. I'm still good friends with those people. It's only a game. If you can't separate player's behavior in the context of a game with who they are outside of it, then maybe board games is not the hobby for you, or at least not social/negotiation board games, which are very common in recent years.

Diplomacy sounds unique, though, because it takes so long to play. In shorter games I might betray you and you me before the night is over. Also, maybe the length makes it eel like there's more at stake?

Both games lasted a long time (one was in person for 10 hours before we ended it, the other was an online game with one turn made per week). Both times I was completely crippled (if someone is going to betray you in Diplomacy they better cripple you or they're going to be fighting multiple fronts later, and that's really hard to do in Diplomacy), and had to basically observe what happened for the rest of it.

I still stand by my statement. It's just a game. Just because it took a few extra hours than most doesn't mean it should permanently damage friendships. Maybe take a week or two break from everyone to decompress from the absolutely intense and crazy experience, but not permanently damage a friendship. That's the sign of a very weak friendship, I feel.

As for more at stake...what's at stake? A 'yay, I won!'? It's not a poker tournament where the winner is going to take home $100,000+.

Re: The Board Game of the Alpha Nerds (2014)

#42

Post by derialstrazus »

mindgam3 wrote: post #32

Apologies in advance if this is somewhat off topic, but I have some pushback against the title of this post. No disrespect to Diplomacy, I think it's a great game. However I would respectfully submit that chess might have a stronger claim to being "the board game of the alpha nerds". (Or go, arguably, in the eastern world. But despite go's supremacy in terms of complexity, it hasn't captured the world's imagination l…

I don't deny chess is the game with the higher status, but I don't think that's what the term alpha was trying to get at. Alpha here is used in a social context, ie the leader of a pack. Some traits of an alpha, as opposed to a beta, include being aggressive, intimidating, capable of convincing others to join your agenda, and willing to lie for your benefit. It's hard to display alpha traits in a one on one game like chess.

Re: The Board Game of the Alpha Nerds (2014)

#43

Post by mindgam3 »

derialstrazus wrote: post #42
mindgam3 wrote: post #32

Apologies in advance if this is somewhat off topic, but I have some pushback against the title of this post. No disrespect to Diplomacy, I think it's a great game. However I would respectfully submit that chess might have a stronger claim to being "the board game of the alpha nerds". (Or go, arguably, in the eastern world. But despite go's supremacy in terms of complexity, it hasn't captured the world's imagination l…

I don't deny chess is the game with the higher status, but I don't think that's what the term alpha was trying to get at. Alpha here is used in a social context, ie the leader of a pack. Some traits of an alpha, as opposed to a beta, include being aggressive, intimidating, capable of convincing others to join your agenda, and willing to lie for your benefit. It's hard to display alpha traits in a one on one game like…

I’m with you up until you associate alpha with being intimidating and willing to lie. Alpha implies leadership 100%. It is possible to be a strong and convincing leader without these negative traits. In practice, most leaders are in fact more ruthless as you portray. But look at the #metoo movement for one data point of how the balance of power is shifting.

All of that notwithstanding, it is very possible and in fact extremely common for alpha traits to be displayed in chess, both the Machiavellian style and the more “woke” for lack of a better term. In a one on one game, this is communicated in the non-game communication ie body language. In a club or team setting all of the usual social dominance tactics apply.

Re: The Board Game of the Alpha Nerds (2014)

#44

Post by eeZah7Ux »

fjsolwmv wrote: post #34
mindgam3 wrote: post #32

Apologies in advance if this is somewhat off topic, but I have some pushback against the title of this post. No disrespect to Diplomacy, I think it's a great game. However I would respectfully submit that chess might have a stronger claim to being "the board game of the alpha nerds". (Or go, arguably, in the eastern world. But despite go's supremacy in terms of complexity, it hasn't captured the world's imagination l…

"Alpha nerds" as a term is unhelpful and distracting.

To say the least. This concept of "alpha" humans has no basis in psychology, biology and anthropology.

It implies that humans are evolved to live in a hierarchical and purely competitive society which is known to be false (not only for us but for many mammals). Humans are not insect nor lobsters.

There are various books from prof. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Sapolsky and youtube videos with good analysis of social behavior in primates including humans.

Re: The Board Game of the Alpha Nerds (2014)

#45

Post by 2muchcoffeeman »

mindgam3 wrote: post #32

Apologies in advance if this is somewhat off topic, but I have some pushback against the title of this post. No disrespect to Diplomacy, I think it's a great game. However I would respectfully submit that chess might have a stronger claim to being "the board game of the alpha nerds". (Or go, arguably, in the eastern world. But despite go's supremacy in terms of complexity, it hasn't captured the world's imagination l…

Chess shows up in popular culture because it’s more popular. Everyone has heard of Chess. You don’t have to explain Chess. If you did have to explain it, its rules and concept are very easy.

Go, and a lot of modern heavy strategy games are way more complex than Chess.

Re: The Board Game of the Alpha Nerds (2014)

#46

Post by dorchadas »

fenwick67 wrote: post #31
acomjean wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>it feels bad Even when you win it’s not great because chances are you did something shady and your friends are mad at you. This might explain why I haven’t played/ thought about this game in 30 years. I like board games (competetive and co-op) but have no desire to play this again.

This is the same problem I have playing Risk. I don't enjoy deceiving my friends and having them deceive me. It's hard for me to understand what kind of person enjoys basically trying to manipulate other people for sport.

I've never noticed the issue with Risk, though I noticed it more often with Diplomacy the summer I played it multiple days a week (it was at a "pre-college" camp thing for academically inclined students). We were stuck there for 5 weeks with each other, and it was actually a good experience because it taught us to overcome how we felt towards each other. So alliances would change regularly each game, which was nice, and we all learned how to move on after and go do something else...usually Ultimate.

Re: The Board Game of the Alpha Nerds (2014)

#47

Post by IggleSniggle »

cableshaft wrote: post #41
tormeh wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Diplomacy sounds unique, though, because it takes so long to play. In shorter games I might betray you and you me before the night is over. Also, maybe the length makes it eel like there's more at stake?

Both games lasted a long time (one was in person for 10 hours before we ended it, the other was an online game with one turn made per week). Both times I was completely crippled (if someone is going to betray you in Diplomacy they better cripple you or they're going to be fighting multiple fronts later, and that's really hard to do in Diplomacy), and had to basically observe what happened for the rest of it. I still…

I suppose close friendships is a context in which I can imagine playing this game again. Having six close friends that love strategy games and have a day to dedicate is much harder to imagine.

It’s the weak friendships that I’m concerned about damaging.

Re: The Board Game of the Alpha Nerds (2014)

#48

Post by empath75 »

fenwick67 wrote: post #31
acomjean wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>it feels bad Even when you win it’s not great because chances are you did something shady and your friends are mad at you. This might explain why I haven’t played/ thought about this game in 30 years. I like board games (competetive and co-op) but have no desire to play this again.

This is the same problem I have playing Risk. I don't enjoy deceiving my friends and having them deceive me. It's hard for me to understand what kind of person enjoys basically trying to manipulate other people for sport.

Risk actually has a different problem— the kingmaking problem. It’s easier for a player to decide who _won’t_ win than it is for a player to use skill to win. It’s easy in the later stages of the game to utterly cripple someone who annoys you.

Re: The Board Game of the Alpha Nerds (2014)

#49

Post by Pxtl »

IggleSniggle wrote: post #19

I absolutely loved this game in high school. It’s very special, in that it’s primary mechanic is real world relationships placed into a tactical context. The downside is that it pulls real world relationships into a simulated zero-sum environment where the game ends but the relationships persist. I’ve never played any game quite like it. Unfortunately, I can’t think of a situation in which I would ever play it again,…

Yup. As much as the concept is neat, fundamentally it's the 7-player and runtime requirements that ruin it.

Games are allowed to have hurt feelings and flaws and brutality if they make up for it with something cool... But the severity of those flaws is amplified by run-time. An 8-hour game that is ruined by betrayal is monstrous.

Need a "diplomacy lite" that can be wrapped up in under 40 minutes

Re: The Board Game of the Alpha Nerds (2014)

#50

Post by YouOkOrNot »

eeZah7Ux wrote: post #44
fjsolwmv wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Alpha nerds" as a term is unhelpful and distracting.

To say the least. This concept of "alpha" humans has no basis in psychology, biology and anthropology. It implies that humans are evolved to live in a hierarchical and purely competitive society which is known to be false (not only for us but for many mammals). Humans are not insect nor lobsters. There are various books from prof. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Sapolsky and youtube videos with good analysis of…

Leaders emerge in all social contexts. Those who become leaders are "alpha".
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