So much talk about Capitalism, about the good old days (capitalism in the US is a very pre-1980's thing) or the current state of capitalism and where it's going -- when what we actually experience and take part in today is Corporatism. I don't see a million articles about rampant corporatism... or even a handful... but this thought that capitalism is around and is how we as a nation live our lives is everywhere.
If the Point of Capitalism Is to Escape Capitalism, Then Why Capitalism?
41–50 of 52 posts
Re: If the Point of Capitalism Is to Escape Capitalism, Then Why Capitalism?
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
Charity makes sense in a capitalistic world, because some people get the "choice" of being poor in it.
in contrast to government-owns-the-means-of-production socialist systems, where nobody gets the choice to not be poor.
A worse system does not make another one better.
Re: If the Point of Capitalism Is to Escape Capitalism, Then Why Capitalism?
#43Capitalism is not a choice. Given the nature of the human mind and the material state of the world, the equilibrium state of human economies is capitalism. To see what I mean, consider any complex system. There will be certain patterns and processes that naturally unfold in that system, while other patterns and processes do not manifest without external energy. The reason is because the former states are closer to th…
This seems like a ridiculous assertion considering that humanity predates capitalism by about a hundred thousand years and civilization predates capitalism by about five thousand years.
Re: If the Point of Capitalism Is to Escape Capitalism, Then Why Capitalism?
#44There are a lot of other good points here. People bang on capitalism because it's easy -- and trendy. One thing that most conversations miss is that capitalism isn't some optional thing you pick up and do like yoga. Wiki defines capitalism as "an economic system based on private ownership of the means of production and their operation for profit." So what does "own" mean? How about "production" We can substitute in s…
"You start collecting coins, or stamps. Suddenly you're trading your stamps with another guy for his political support for getting a new stoplight." If there is no ownership there is no concept of 'your collection' or trading for that matter. There are stamps on a shelf in a room in a house you currently locate yourself. As there is no concept of ownership, there is no concept of stealing. The other guy can just 'tak…
> The other guy can just 'take' your stamps. As they don't belong to you.
He could, but he won't—not unless he is so much stronger than you that he has no need to worry about reciprocation—because there are things that he thinks of as "his" and doesn't want you to take. It's easier to just tacitly agree, between the two of you, that some things are yours and some things are his, and any changes in that status ought to be worked out on mutually acceptable terms.
This is why private property is one aspect of natural law. The concept arises naturally wherever there exist scarce resources to be allocated for individual use. Societies which recognize this trend and align themselves with it consistently tend to prosper, while others which either ignore it or actively reject the concept of private property struggle to rise above mere subsistence.
Re: If the Point of Capitalism Is to Escape Capitalism, Then Why Capitalism?
#45Capitalism is not a choice. Given the nature of the human mind and the material state of the world, the equilibrium state of human economies is capitalism. To see what I mean, consider any complex system. There will be certain patterns and processes that naturally unfold in that system, while other patterns and processes do not manifest without external energy. The reason is because the former states are closer to th…
This seems like a ridiculous assertion considering that humanity predates capitalism by about a hundred thousand years and civilization predates capitalism by about five thousand years.
"Given the nature of the human mind and the material state of the world"
The material state of the world my friend.
Re: If the Point of Capitalism Is to Escape Capitalism, Then Why Capitalism?
#46Re: If the Point of Capitalism Is to Escape Capitalism, Then Why Capitalism?
#47Hold up. I think everyone is getting caught up on the idea of "freedom". Capitalism does not grant you any shred of personal freedom from the bottom of the chain to the tippy-top. The higher you get, the less personal freedom you have. Financial freedom, yea, but not Enlightenment era freedom. Being a titan in business has to be a fucking nightmare. Your responsibilities are astronomical. Everyone wants to slit your throat for your crown at the top. Back stabbers. Gold diggers. Cheats. Con artists. And just trying to be relevant and competitive. Oh, and phone calls. I can imagine anyone in the top 100 of forbes, that actually runs a business, does not get a decent night sleep most nights.
And I'm a capitalist myself. I'm happy with being a moderate fish in a small pond. Because more than this, fuck it, I'm going to go live in the woods and grow a beard that can be used as an axe to chop trees. But that means I'm a little tad-pole when I do that. That, I'm not really willing to go back to.
You're trying to be the biggest fish in the pond, in the biggest pond you can find. Biggest gorilla. Fiercest lion. Whatever your analogy. You get the point. Sure, folks tap-out and cash out, then become poets, sail around the world, tell people how they should live their lives, etc. Not that I blame them. The burnout being on their level...
Bit of a rant. Might as well follow it up with a bit more ranting.
I'm tired of people, like the dude in the article, "Well, Marx said...". Who the fuck cares? Let's face a fact of the matter. His ideas of how an economy should function never worked. Soviet Union? Venezuela? China abandoned it with Nixon's blessing. It's been tested time and time again on different sides of the planet. His ideas of how social structures should work has consistently resulted in strangling police states and high levels of corruption. NKVD? Stasi? China in general? Anyone sucking the sickle of communism isn't exactly going to win a humanitarian or economic award anytime soon. What's the practical definition of stupid? Seriously, wtf. Sure, communism may work in small doses, like I've heard that some Why are people still stuck on a guy who was proven wrong many times? Not just a little wrong. But people have been slaughtered or starved to death in his teaching. In the millions. And yes, other teachings have done the same. I'm positive someone is going to say with avocado on their breath, "Yea, you just described religion too". Great. Stalin is now above Ghandi and Borlaug because of your religion comment. Assholes, of all shapes, colors and sizes, get thrown into the same shithole. Regardless who else is in their too.
I'm angry...
Phone typing, so probably typos and I don't feel like rereading this. Take as you will. Go find 2 cents in a parking lot somewhere.
Re: If the Point of Capitalism Is to Escape Capitalism, Then Why Capitalism?
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
This got me to thinking about the minimum things need for capitalism. 0. some agreement to not use violence to take value 1. some way to Exchange Value 2. ways to Store Value 3. ways to Lend Value
Is lending a necessary condition, or a corollary?
true.
Re: If the Point of Capitalism Is to Escape Capitalism, Then Why Capitalism?
#49The conflation of slavery with capitalism is too easy a target, so I'll address a highlight: "what’s striking about capitalism is that we’re all trying to escape it — even most of the capitalists — because it makes us so miserable, mean, and foolish." Philanthropy is not "escaping" capitalism. Going to mars is not "escaping" capitalism. Achieving financial independence is not "escaping" capitalism. These are all choi…
Charity makes sense in a capitalistic world, because some people get the "choice" of being poor in it.
Actually, if you think about it, capitalism (in the U.S. at least) really doesn't give you the choice to be poor, essentially requiring you to live at a relatively high standard.
Re: If the Point of Capitalism Is to Escape Capitalism, Then Why Capitalism?
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
Charity makes sense in a capitalistic world, because some people get the "choice" of being poor in it.
Many people do. Many poor people make bad life decisions which lead them, unfortunately, into their poverty.
And many people choose to be born into poverty with never a chance to succeed.