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The Coders of Kentucky

nytimes.com

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Re: The Coders of Kentucky

#41

Post by User23 »

closeparen wrote: post #37
sheeshkebab wrote: post #36

Software development is a semi engineering, semi math/quantitative profession. Very little of current US primary/middle, and high school education is dedicated that. A few boot camps are not going to solve the fundamental skills mismatch issues....

No, it’s not. Software engineering is about creating and communicating logical structures, which is closer to writing philosophy papers than to cranking quadratic equations or knowing the integrals of trigonometric functions. Some high school math may be incidentally useful in the analysis of algorithmic complexity, but the structural correspondence between math and programming doesn’t show up until math transitions…

Good proof methods are symbolic computations. Hoare logic and the predicate calculus are the two major examples I know of. In fact in my personal favorite formalism, a proof is actually rather a lot like an equation[1].

It's an observable reality that most "pure" mathematical proofs are rather less rigorous than the best CS work, simply because peer reviewers are rather more lenient than computing machines.

https://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/transcriptions/EWD13xx/E...

Re: The Coders of Kentucky

#42

Post by quiq »

sidlls wrote: post #27
opportune wrote: post #21

I'm from KY. This article is great, but in focusing on these coding bootcamp graduates, it misses the much larger picture of just how much brain drain occurs for actual CS graduates (who, to be fair, are much less likely to be from Eastern KY). Right now they're taking millions in gov. money to train a small amount of people... but Kentucky graduates many more people with degrees in CS every year, by about an order o…

This is exactly how I feel about it. I came to the Bay Area for compensation closer to the value I provide. I stay because few other places offer the same combination of opportunity, compensation, and diversity. I'd take a 10% to 20% pay cut to live closer to family in a less expensive area, but where they live (a Midwestern city) every single one of those three things is strictly worse.

Is compensation really strictly less with a 20% pay cut? I'm from the midwest and I have a hard time wrapping my head around the compensation differences. Google-able "cost of living" calculators give me an 80k range for my midwest city salary, that works out to 35-62% cut.

Re: The Coders of Kentucky

#43

Post by User23 »

sanderjd wrote: post #22
dentemple wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any actual constructive criticism to go along with your sweeping generalization?

Rephrasing the parent's point in a way that I think is not inflammatory: " Anecdotally, the bootcamp graduates that didn't previously know how to code who I have worked with have provided net negative value - that is the productivity cost to the rest of the team has been higher than the value they have provided - and I think companies who hire them must not be aware of this possibility. " This has not been my experie…

This is why you almost always see "experience required" in job postings. It makes getting that first job difficult (you basically have to BS some), but you explain exactly why employers do it that way.

Re: The Coders of Kentucky

#44

Post by nodesocket »

> "Trump for President.” (Kentucky went 63 percent for him.)

What does that have to do with the article? I really despise the media bias and overtly political tone that seeps its way into everything. I live in the South.

The real story should be the economy is booming, opportunities are omnipresent, and the American dream of working hard and progressing your way up the financial ladder of success is obtainable for everybody. Kudos for going out taking the class, learning to code, and taking control of your future and economic success.

Re: The Coders of Kentucky

#45

Post by ratliffchrisb »

opportune wrote: post #21

I'm from KY. This article is great, but in focusing on these coding bootcamp graduates, it misses the much larger picture of just how much brain drain occurs for actual CS graduates (who, to be fair, are much less likely to be from Eastern KY). Right now they're taking millions in gov. money to train a small amount of people... but Kentucky graduates many more people with degrees in CS every year, by about an order o…

Very true. UK, U of L, and many other schools in the state produce solid devs. And you're right a lot of the better grads leave for better jobs. But I wouldn't agree that there are no "good" jobs here. The salary is lower, but you probably come out ahead in CoL terms. There have been some startups doing well recently in Lexington and from what I understand Louisville is only doing better. The place I work, Badger Technologies, is doing some pretty awesome things and has some open positions.

This article in the Herald Leader explains and give some numbers to what you're saying https://www.kentucky.com/news/business/article181564581.html Supposedly some of the reason the group was pushed by some larger employers in the area that were hearing potential employees were turning down offers because if the job didn't turn out well in the long run there weren't many alternatives.

Re: The Coders of Kentucky

#46

Post by ratliffchrisb »

jdhn wrote: post #40

I came away from this article feeling cautiously optimistic. As the article noted, they had 800 applicants, accepted 50, and graduated 35. It's great that those 35 got jobs, but what do you do with those 750 people who couldn't get in? Do you train them in something else that requires a little bit of tech skills, such as CNC machining?

I don't know what the exact cause is, but I got the impression the reason 50 were admitted was that there was a limit to the scale of the program, not that everyone else was unqualified. The article mentioned they are admitting 90 the next year and were continuing to expand.

Re: The Coders of Kentucky

#47

Post by ratliffchrisb »

maxaigner wrote: post #7

At some point we should wonder what other strategies Silicon Valley has. The fact that coders are encouraged to work remotely is attractive to sustain these areas of the USA, but it hampers the formation of centres of specialisation and exchange with other fields: either these graduates stay and work remotely, disconnected from both local industry[1] and the tech hubs, or they move away and worsen the unemployment pr…

Yeah, that's a huge issue. The ability for the local talent to share their expertise with each other is important too. I agree, but there are solutions to the problem. More meetups and groups have been started in the area, Lexington, and some more rural areas too.

Re: The Coders of Kentucky

#48

Post by [deleted] »

opportune wrote: post #21

I'm from KY. This article is great, but in focusing on these coding bootcamp graduates, it misses the much larger picture of just how much brain drain occurs for actual CS graduates (who, to be fair, are much less likely to be from Eastern KY). Right now they're taking millions in gov. money to train a small amount of people... but Kentucky graduates many more people with degrees in CS every year, by about an order o…

[deleted]

Re: The Coders of Kentucky

#49

Post by [deleted] »

ratliffchrisb wrote: post #45
opportune wrote: post #21

I'm from KY. This article is great, but in focusing on these coding bootcamp graduates, it misses the much larger picture of just how much brain drain occurs for actual CS graduates (who, to be fair, are much less likely to be from Eastern KY). Right now they're taking millions in gov. money to train a small amount of people... but Kentucky graduates many more people with degrees in CS every year, by about an order o…

Very true. UK, U of L, and many other schools in the state produce solid devs. And you're right a lot of the better grads leave for better jobs. But I wouldn't agree that there are no "good" jobs here. The salary is lower, but you probably come out ahead in CoL terms. There have been some startups doing well recently in Lexington and from what I understand Louisville is only doing better. The place I work, Badger Tec…

[deleted]

Re: The Coders of Kentucky

#50

Post by LyndsySimon »

This is basically the life I lead, minus the boot camp. I spent five years in central Virginia instead, to get my career to the point where I could get a good remote job.

I live in rural Arkansas, and there are basically no tech jobs here. My salary is much less than it’d be in LA (where my employer is located), but is still something like four times the median family income here.

I feel like I have the best of both worlds, and wish I could help others here make it in our industry - but who wants to hire remote junior devs?

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