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Amazon Investigates Employees Leaking Data for Bribes

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Re: Amazon Investigates Employees Leaking Data for Bribes

#41

Post by [deleted] »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #22
clubm8 wrote: post #14

> The practice, which violates company policy, is particularly pronounced in China, according to some of these people, because the number of sellers there is skyrocketing. As well, Amazon employees in China have relatively small salaries, which emboldens them to take risks. Sounds like Amazon is finding out the hard way that you need to pay for trust , not just skill. When you pay the absolute bare minimum to your em…

This is counterintelligence 101. There are four traditional motivations of insider threats (MICE): M: Money I: Ideology C: Coercion E: Ego The thinking around that is changing, but the financial motivation is still at the top of the list. [1] https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intellig...

[deleted]

Re: Amazon Investigates Employees Leaking Data for Bribes

#42

Post by [deleted] »

fcuck_actuarial wrote: post #24
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is counterintelligence 101. There are four traditional motivations of insider threats (MICE): M: Money I: Ideology C: Coercion E: Ego The thinking around that is changing, but the financial motivation is still at the top of the list. [1] https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intellig...

I think M,I,and E (hopefully not C) could also be considered motivations for convincing someone to change jobs? (In my experience, recruiters from a well known FAANG company like to lean HEAVILY on E. Jokes on them, because the right answer is M!)

[deleted]

Re: Amazon Investigates Employees Leaking Data for Bribes

#43

Post by reitanqild »

jjeaff wrote: post #25
nostromo wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s why you build systems that don’t allow for abuse whenever possible. And when it’s not possible, you create an audit trail. For example, I trust Google to make my individual search history difficult for employees to access, specific search results difficult to change, and confidential data difficult to access.

Do you have any reason to have that trust? Absent any evidence, I'm inclined to think that they do very little to protect my data. Had they any stringent controls in place, I feel like their PR or marketing would have communicated some of the specifics publicly.

I think there is a widespread understanding that nosing into customer data will get you fired from Google immediately.

There was a case the other year that the media picked up so I read about it.

As for why they don't usually talk about it might be because (examples):

- they don't want people to think about how much data they have

- saying: "we punish people who abuse their positions" indirectly hints that this is happening. Why would there be such a policy if that couldn't happen?

- (guessing) aren't really the brightest ones when it comes to marketing and PR. So far they've been saved by having products thats sells themselves.

Re: Amazon Investigates Employees Leaking Data for Bribes

#44

Post by benologist »

userbinator wrote: post #27
clubm8 wrote: post #14

> The practice, which violates company policy, is particularly pronounced in China, according to some of these people, because the number of sellers there is skyrocketing. As well, Amazon employees in China have relatively small salaries, which emboldens them to take risks. Sounds like Amazon is finding out the hard way that you need to pay for trust , not just skill. When you pay the absolute bare minimum to your em…

Don't forget that China is ultimately a far more collectivist society, and stuff like this happens all the time. The money just provides additional motivation; people's natural tendency is to share things.

Where possible Bezos has Western employees pissing in bottles and penalized for taking sick days, working without vacations, retirement savings and health care supplemented with food stamps and tent-camps so it's pretty generous to blame Chinese culture for toxicity from the top.

Re: Amazon Investigates Employees Leaking Data for Bribes

#45

Post by marcell »

_ptgt wrote: post #37
userbinator wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget that China is ultimately a far more collectivist society, and stuff like this happens all the time. The money just provides additional motivation; people's natural tendency is to share things.

Eh, how do you define collectivist? Ever tried to get on a Chinese subway or stand in a Chinese queue? I'm not sure you can compare e g. US and Chinese collectivism unidimensionally.

I'm not a sociologist but this is a fairly common distinction in sociology. Countries like Russia or China are considered to be more collectivist. For example in China they are very OK with using eminent domain to seize individual property to build rail roads. America is considered to be more individualist. We also have eminent domain here, but it's much less common to use it, (eg. see California high speed rail).

Re: Amazon Investigates Employees Leaking Data for Bribes

#46

Post by jorblumesea »

clubm8 wrote: post #14

> The practice, which violates company policy, is particularly pronounced in China, according to some of these people, because the number of sellers there is skyrocketing. As well, Amazon employees in China have relatively small salaries, which emboldens them to take risks. Sounds like Amazon is finding out the hard way that you need to pay for trust , not just skill. When you pay the absolute bare minimum to your em…

Then why China, and not India or other low COL areas? I don't believe it's as simple as purely salary.

Re: Amazon Investigates Employees Leaking Data for Bribes

#47

Post by dredmorbius »

clubm8 wrote: post #14

> The practice, which violates company policy, is particularly pronounced in China, according to some of these people, because the number of sellers there is skyrocketing. As well, Amazon employees in China have relatively small salaries, which emboldens them to take risks. Sounds like Amazon is finding out the hard way that you need to pay for trust , not just skill. When you pay the absolute bare minimum to your em…

Noted, FWIW, by Adam Smith:

The five following are the principal circumstances which, so far as I have been able to observe, make up for a small pecuniary gain in some employments, and counterbalance a great one in others: first, the agreeableness or disagreeableness of the employments themselves; secondly, the easiness and cheapness, or the difficulty and expense of learning them; thirdly, the constancy or inconstancy of employment in them; fourthly, the small or great trust which must be reposed in those who exercise them; and, fifthly, the probability or improbability of success in them.

https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Wealth_of_Nations/Book_...

Re: Amazon Investigates Employees Leaking Data for Bribes

#48

Post by jjeaff »

anoncoward111 wrote: post #19
gesman wrote: post #10

That's how Costco survives and prospers in Amazon era. By not exposing customers to shady vendors, misleading metrics and questionable product rankings based on fake reviews.

Yes but Costco only has a specific set of things that I'm looking for, sometimes in too high quantities and at a price point that is not particularly amazing

I find most of their standard bulk items to be consistently cheaper. Or if not cheaper, of significantly better quality.

Toilet paper, for example, is usually cheaper and when it isn't, the quality of what I might find on sale is hit or miss.

But the biggest draw is the Kirkland label. I'm almost always pleased with the quality for the price. And it's essentially brand name products in different packaging.

You can buy a box of Enfamil baby formula for $38 or get Kirkland brand in the same container but with a Kirkland sticker, and made by Enfamil, for $18.

Amazon is emulating this model with the Amazon Basics brand. But I'm yet to be impressed by the quality or price.

Re: Amazon Investigates Employees Leaking Data for Bribes

#49

Post by rifung »

jjeaff wrote: post #25
nostromo wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s why you build systems that don’t allow for abuse whenever possible. And when it’s not possible, you create an audit trail. For example, I trust Google to make my individual search history difficult for employees to access, specific search results difficult to change, and confidential data difficult to access.

Do you have any reason to have that trust? Absent any evidence, I'm inclined to think that they do very little to protect my data. Had they any stringent controls in place, I feel like their PR or marketing would have communicated some of the specifics publicly.

We definitely have systems in place so that employees can not just randomly look at customer data, and when it is necessary it is always logged.

Even if we need to debug customer issues we would need a good reason to look at data over just metadata. There are strict requirements for what can go in logs and dashboards also as you can imagine.

> Absent any evidence, I'm inclined to think that they do very little to protect my data.

Well I think the evidence is mostly that people aren't having their personal data leaked by Google employees isn't it?

Re: Amazon Investigates Employees Leaking Data for Bribes

#50

Post by analog31 »

benologist wrote: post #44
userbinator wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget that China is ultimately a far more collectivist society, and stuff like this happens all the time. The money just provides additional motivation; people's natural tendency is to share things.

Where possible Bezos has Western employees pissing in bottles and penalized for taking sick days, working without vacations, retirement savings and health care supplemented with food stamps and tent-camps so it's pretty generous to blame Chinese culture for toxicity from the top.

Indeed, the "data leaks" that Amazon experiences in the US are people taking pictures of their working conditions and sharing them with the public.
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