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The startup world’s cuddly, cutthroat battle to walk your dog

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Re: The startup world’s cuddly, cutthroat battle to walk your dog

#41

Post by anoncoward111 »

ohazi wrote: post #30
anoncoward111 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need to figure that 50% of people won't ever sign up for a service like this because they're just content to do nothing, and you should figure that this company will find a way to spend a lot of the money theyre given

I did. > Let's say the success case for one of these companies is to capture 10% of that market > That's almost half a billion in revenue[1] per year. [1] Not profit

Apologies, I misread :(

They're only starting in NY and Cali, which I estimated to be about 7 million dogs that needed walking. Additionally, Uber and Lyft combine to do $8 billion in revenue per year, operating at much larger scale with much larger demand and averagr sale price.

So I think $500M a year is optimistic. I would expect this type of startup to do more like $50M a year in revenue with a modest loss, and the users are then sold peripheral pet services.

Re: The startup world’s cuddly, cutthroat battle to walk your dog

#42

Post by jsonne »

ohazi wrote: post #16
nradov wrote: post #11

The idea of buying a dog when you don't have time to walk it yourself just seems bizarre to me. Why do people do that? I also find the recent notion of "pet parents" rather offensive. My dog is my property. I have a responsibility to take good care of her, but ultimately I am her owner not her parent.

I agree with your first statement. I find your second statement a little bizarre. People are going to feel varying degrees of attachment to their pets. Why would you care? You can think it's silly or weird, but who are you to take offense at something like that?

I'll chime in. My first child is due in 3 months. I find it offensive when my friends compare the burden of pet ownership to that of raising a child because there is so much more work, preparation, and much higher stakes. I think that's the reason people react so strongly to sentiments like that.

Re: The startup world’s cuddly, cutthroat battle to walk your dog

#43

Post by ohazi »

anoncoward111 wrote: post #41
ohazi wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did. > Let's say the success case for one of these companies is to capture 10% of that market > That's almost half a billion in revenue[1] per year. [1] Not profit

Apologies, I misread :( They're only starting in NY and Cali, which I estimated to be about 7 million dogs that needed walking. Additionally, Uber and Lyft combine to do $8 billion in revenue per year, operating at much larger scale with much larger demand and averagr sale price. So I think $500M a year is optimistic. I would expect this type of startup to do more like $50M a year in revenue with a modest loss, and t…

That's fair. I was thinking more along the lines of what an investor might consider a long-term / endgame success case for the company.

I would definitely expect them to be pulling in far below that for a long time.

Re: The startup world’s cuddly, cutthroat battle to walk your dog

#44

Post by refurb »

mikestew wrote: post #19
nradov wrote: post #11

The idea of buying a dog when you don't have time to walk it yourself just seems bizarre to me. Why do people do that? I also find the recent notion of "pet parents" rather offensive. My dog is my property. I have a responsibility to take good care of her, but ultimately I am her owner not her parent.

I also find the recent notion of "pet parents" rather offensive. To each their own. Of probably equal or greater offense to me is the idea that one treat living, sentient beings to be owned and treated as property. As to your other point, I have no idea other than changing circumstances. I find that having a dog saves me from being a lazy slob and forces me to drag my arse out the door for an hour when I otherwise wo…

the idea that one treat living, sentient beings to be owned and treated as property

That's exactly how the law treats animals. They are property of their owner.

Re: The startup world’s cuddly, cutthroat battle to walk your dog

#45

Post by nradov »

ohazi wrote: post #16
nradov wrote: post #11

The idea of buying a dog when you don't have time to walk it yourself just seems bizarre to me. Why do people do that? I also find the recent notion of "pet parents" rather offensive. My dog is my property. I have a responsibility to take good care of her, but ultimately I am her owner not her parent.

I agree with your first statement. I find your second statement a little bizarre. People are going to feel varying degrees of attachment to their pets. Why would you care? You can think it's silly or weird, but who are you to take offense at something like that?

I dislike the phrase "pet parent" because it implies a false equivalence with actual human children. Also the pet-industrial complex has latched onto it as marketing message to guilt pet owners into buying a bunch of unnecessary crap.

Re: The startup world’s cuddly, cutthroat battle to walk your dog

#46

Post by cabaalis »

jsonne wrote: post #42
ohazi wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your first statement. I find your second statement a little bizarre. People are going to feel varying degrees of attachment to their pets. Why would you care? You can think it's silly or weird, but who are you to take offense at something like that?

I'll chime in. My first child is due in 3 months. I find it offensive when my friends compare the burden of pet ownership to that of raising a child because there is so much more work, preparation, and much higher stakes. I think that's the reason people react so strongly to sentiments like that.

No need to be offended. It's probably just ignorance of the difficulty (in the nicest use of the word), as well as a desire to be feel included as their peers begin families. There is obviously no comparison.

Re: The startup world’s cuddly, cutthroat battle to walk your dog

#47

Post by draw_down »

bko wrote: post #2

> While millennials may not own cars or homes, three-quarters of Americans in their 30s have dogs. A little more than half own cats Does anyone else find this very hard to believe? I tried to track down the source [0, 1, 2] but I'm unsure how reliable "American Pet Products Association". It's describes itself as "The leading not-for-profit trade association serving the interests of pet product manufacturers and impor…

Yes, I have a dog and live in a dog friendly place and it doesn’t seem like anywhere near that many people have them.

Re: The startup world’s cuddly, cutthroat battle to walk your dog

#48

Post by jbob2000 »

elektor wrote: post #28

I'm curious. After the initial matchup, what stops these "independent contractors" and dog owners from cutting out the middleman (Wag/ Rover)?

Absolutely nothing, which is why these companies are a flash in the pan. You can sign a contract with them, but it means nothing if someone on the other side of the country is violating it and you have no idea. Also, this is a petty cash business. Even if someone violates the contract, are you going to take them to court over $45? No, you'll just ban them. And the customers who liked that person will leave your service and phone them up privately. These companies die by a thousand cuts.

Some people have this idea that all human processes need to be mirrored in software. This type of gig work is best left to ad-hoc job boards like craigslist or kajiji or facebook marketplace. Why do we continue to try to force this into software?

Re: The startup world’s cuddly, cutthroat battle to walk your dog

#49

Post by astura »

elektor wrote: post #28

I'm curious. After the initial matchup, what stops these "independent contractors" and dog owners from cutting out the middleman (Wag/ Rover)?

Absolutely nothing other than them threatening to remove you from the platform.

And some of the sitters and walkers who use these apps already had established sitting and walking businesses.

Re: The startup world’s cuddly, cutthroat battle to walk your dog

#50

Post by lightbyte »

ohazi wrote: post #25
Xylakant wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That calculation assumes that the investor doesn’t get any return on the investment, so that seems a tiny bit optimistic.

Do the dogs just stop needing walks at some point?

No, but after the first walk they are going to ditch the middleman and pay the walker directly
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