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Labor Board Backs Startup Engineers Fired for Unionizing

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Re: Labor Board Backs Startup Engineers Fired for Unionizing

#41

Post by oh_sigh »

mc32 wrote: post #16
geofft wrote: post #11

A little bit of a tangent, but, > Earlier this month, after five years of organizing, security officers for companies including Facebook, Google, and Genentech, many of whom were making between $12 and $14 an hour, ratified their first union contract. They won wage increases of up to $1.20 per hour, better health care, and, for the first time, paid holidays. How is this rational? Do Facebook and Google believe they a…

Those folks do physical security. Aside from access to buildings and stuff they have access to little else, plus they have supervisors and people at the company who supervise them, plus doing weird things will trigger alerts and stuff, so I don't think they can do a lot beside ignore alarms for an intruder who would not have access to digital assets. Plus, NDAs are pretty powerful tools. I mean, if a guard lets you i…

Bribe a guard, install a hardware keylogger on random workstation, steal corporate login password, and go from there.

Re: Labor Board Backs Startup Engineers Fired for Unionizing

#42

Post by Apocryphon »

oh_sigh wrote: post #40
Apocryphon wrote: post #39

I'm firmly convinced that tech workers will come around to unionizing once they accidentally reinvent it under a different name

What tangible benefits would the average tech worker get? What benefits would a FAANGer get? Not surprisingly I work in tech. I'm not morally opposed to unions - I just don't see how they would make my life any better.

Here's some issues that a collective advocacy organization could help with:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15596221

Also:

"Even if you don't believe in unions, unions are necessary to force the hand of government. Bismarck instituted a welfare state in Germany to undercut the popularity of socialism and the left. You need unions to get to a stronger safety net, even if the powers-that-be are establishing it in opposition to them."

Re: Labor Board Backs Startup Engineers Fired for Unionizing

#43

Post by tony101 »

oh_sigh wrote: post #41
mc32 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those folks do physical security. Aside from access to buildings and stuff they have access to little else, plus they have supervisors and people at the company who supervise them, plus doing weird things will trigger alerts and stuff, so I don't think they can do a lot beside ignore alarms for an intruder who would not have access to digital assets. Plus, NDAs are pretty powerful tools. I mean, if a guard lets you i…

Bribe a guard, install a hardware keylogger on random workstation, steal corporate login password, and go from there.

And grab any U2F security keys in sight.

Re: Labor Board Backs Startup Engineers Fired for Unionizing

#44

Post by Fins »

Apocryphon wrote: post #42
oh_sigh wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What tangible benefits would the average tech worker get? What benefits would a FAANGer get? Not surprisingly I work in tech. I'm not morally opposed to unions - I just don't see how they would make my life any better.

Here's some issues that a collective advocacy organization could help with: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15596221 Also: "Even if you don't believe in unions, unions are necessary to force the hand of government. Bismarck instituted a welfare state in Germany to undercut the popularity of socialism and the left. You need unions to get to a stronger safety net, even if the powers-that-be are establishing it in…

As a single data point, I worked at a union shop once. It wasn't very good.

Re: Labor Board Backs Startup Engineers Fired for Unionizing

#45

Post by ma2rten »

Apocryphon wrote: post #39

I'm firmly convinced that tech workers will come around to unionizing once they accidentally reinvent it under a different name

Genuine question: Do other high-skilled professions have unions (like marketeers, scientists, lawyers, doctors, electrical engineers, ...)?

Re: Labor Board Backs Startup Engineers Fired for Unionizing

#46

Post by jkaplowitz »

oh_sigh wrote: post #40
Apocryphon wrote: post #39

I'm firmly convinced that tech workers will come around to unionizing once they accidentally reinvent it under a different name

What tangible benefits would the average tech worker get? What benefits would a FAANGer get? Not surprisingly I work in tech. I'm not morally opposed to unions - I just don't see how they would make my life any better.

I used to work at Google. Without going into specifics in this public of a forum, yes I've personally witnessed examples of unjustified pay disparities, due to arbitrary factors uncorrelated with job qualifications or performance.

At the very least, collective assistance could be very useful at Google in negotiating fair compensation for new hires and in sustaining that fairness over time based on performance data.

After all, Google has huge quantities of data to let them decide on compensation, the employees have extremely little and unevenly distributed access to similar data, and it doesn't feel like there is much opportunity to recover lost wages if you realize you've been underpaid compared to peers (aside from discrimination on illegal grounds).

I presume the same would help at other tech companies.

None of this requires the stereotypical fossilized rigidity that give unions a bad name, and I wouldn't want that either. Even in the US NLRA system that's not at all required.

Re: Labor Board Backs Startup Engineers Fired for Unionizing

#47

Post by Gustomaximus »

ma2rten wrote: post #45
Apocryphon wrote: post #39

I'm firmly convinced that tech workers will come around to unionizing once they accidentally reinvent it under a different name

Genuine question: Do other high-skilled professions have unions (like marketeers, scientists, lawyers, doctors, electrical engineers, ...)?

Marketers dont.

Re: Labor Board Backs Startup Engineers Fired for Unionizing

#49

Post by monocasa »

oh_sigh wrote: post #40
Apocryphon wrote: post #39

I'm firmly convinced that tech workers will come around to unionizing once they accidentally reinvent it under a different name

What tangible benefits would the average tech worker get? What benefits would a FAANGer get? Not surprisingly I work in tech. I'm not morally opposed to unions - I just don't see how they would make my life any better.

Remember that time that most of FAANG and others were involved in a wage fixing scheme and we're fined way less than they profited from the scheme?

Just because you're paid well compared to other sectors doesn't mean that you're being properly compensated.

Re: Labor Board Backs Startup Engineers Fired for Unionizing

#50

Post by jkaplowitz »

scarejunba wrote: post #36
eigenvector wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about getting into a data center and causing a service disruption by physically destroying equipment?

The datacentre security is different. They tell you when you sign up for GCP.

Can confirm. Even most Googlers can only go there on pre-approved guided tours, most of the time. And even that isn't common.
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