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How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

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Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#41

Post by brianwawok »

phil248 wrote: post #17

I was amazed at how mellow everyone in Amsterdam seemed while riding their bikes. In US cities, most cyclist act like they're in a race. They must run every stop sign, charge down every hill, graze every pedestrian... in downtown Amsterdam most people were going at a leisurely pace and if you get in their way, they just ding a little bell at you.

I race triathlons. Bike commutes are a bonus chance to get some miles. Cruising at 14 mph does nothing for my fitness level.

(all except the graze pedestrian part, I try to avoid that).

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#42

Post by AceyMan »

Rainymood wrote: post #2

As a Dutch person I am pleasantly surprised by this article, it gets basically everything right. One thing though is that our geography works well with biking. I visited the US recently and you can drive for 30 minutes in a car and you are still in LA, if you drive for 30 minutes in the Netherlands you're in a completely different city. Everything is just closer and hence more bike-able. As a dutch person I would abs…

LA resident here for eleven years (coming from ATL which has its own horrible traffic and is worse by miles for bike commuting, fwiw).

> I visited the US recently and you can drive for 30 minutes in a car and you are still in LA, if you drive for 30 minutes in the Netherlands you're in a completely different city.

My not-so-pedantic comments to these facts are (a) LA is freaking HUGE (if ever fly into LAX at night, pay attention to when the earth becomes a solid carpet of city lights. It's a looong way from the shoreline). We aren't constrained by water on three or four sides like say, NYC/Manhattan or San Francisco.

And, (b), at LA's 101/10/405/surface street speeds, thirty minutes may only be three or four miles (or two, if you venture to travel at The Wrong Times), while you can get to one of the major secondary cities (Anaheim, for example) in about fifty minutes if you time it well.

So, while technically true, those points aren't representative of How Things Really Are, imho. (me: exclusive transit/bike commuter here for 6+ years)

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#43

Post by dsfyu404ed »

jchanimal wrote: post #30
sbradford26 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say that is because in the US only the people most into biking use their bikes to commute. They have to want to bike enough to put up with no bike lanes and such. This attracts people who want to ride fast, there is also very little community to hold each other accountable for riding like that.

It also feels safer to be going closer to car speed

It feels safer because it is safer. Having to be aware of traffic that's moving at a substantially different speed than one's self is extra cognitive load that benefits neither the fast or slow traffic. Humans have a finite amount of attention they can give to what they're doing. This applies to kayaks and boats as much as it does to bikes and cars.

This is just a

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#44

Post by Fritsdehacker »

codr4 wrote: post #27

From having spent quite some time in Amsterdam, I would say that you're safer on a bike than on foot. When a biker rings the bell on you in Amsterdam it's not a heads up or suggestion to get out of the way like in the rest of the world; it's quite possibly the last thing you will ever hear. From my experience, they go fast and expect you to move out of the way. Or you could try to not walk in bike lanes, I guess; not…

I lived in Amsterdam for more than ten years and recently moved to a smaller city. Amsterdam really has it's own bike "culture". Cyclist in the rest of Holland are far more forgiving to pedestrians and other traffic in general in my experience. I have no trouble cycling in Amsterdam, but I do have to pay a lot more attention than normally.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#45

Post by electricslpnsld »

phil248 wrote: post #17

I was amazed at how mellow everyone in Amsterdam seemed while riding their bikes. In US cities, most cyclist act like they're in a race. They must run every stop sign, charge down every hill, graze every pedestrian... in downtown Amsterdam most people were going at a leisurely pace and if you get in their way, they just ding a little bell at you.

> In US cities, most cyclist act like they're in a race.

Eh, I think it depends where you go in the US. When living in Portland I couldn't afford a car and so I biked exclusively, and people were super mellow. Cyclists would even gently chide other cyclists for running red lights, failing to signal, not having lights, etc.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#46

Post by Scott_Sanderson »

The US mostly has different land use laws than the Netherlands. For example, minimum parking requirements and minimum setbacks from property lines basically require sprawl. You get more bang for buck on bike infrastructure when a neighborhood in denser than what is usually allowed in the US. There is usually stiff resistance to changing the US zoning rules.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#47

Post by skookumchuck »

tlb wrote: post #33

Another way in which biking in (some parts of) the US isn't casual: pretty much every biker you see in Silicon Valley has bike shorts, a jersey advertising a race or energy drink, clip-in shoes and is riding at VO₂ max. I feel out of place tooling around in street clothes.

In Seattle, too. They look like they took a wrong turn at the Tour de France.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#48

Post by bunderbunder »

Scott_Sanderson wrote: post #40
bunderbunder wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen that stated many times. As far as I can tell, it traces back to a news article that did fun things like cherry picking individual observations from a study to support a claim even though the study's overall findings were contradictory. My own sense is that the science seems pretty clear that, provided you are in a wreck, wearing a helmet greatly reduces your risk of serious injury and death. Helmets aren't…

> provided you are in a wreck, wearing a helmet greatly reduces your risk of serious injury and death So . . . you wear a helmet when driving? Because people get head injuries all the time in car wrecks.

My bicycle doesn't have nearly as many air bags as a typical car.

You're right, though. Cars are fundamentally dangerous. High risk of violent injury or death, and, even in the best case, they subtly harm your health and longevity by encouraging a sedentary lifestyle. Damned expensive, too. Perhaps we should all just move to Rotterdam so we wouldn't have to deal with them so much.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#49

Post by dstick »

Don’t believe the lies! All the pictures in this article show a sunny city with happy cyclists. Apart from the last 2 months this is demonstrably false since everyone who lives in the Netherlands knows that if starts to rain the second you get outside to grab your bike and a strong headwind will follow you relentlessly, even when you make a 180 turn.

Those are the facts. Don’t believe this propaganda.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#50

Post by pasta »

I once drove my bike through The Netherlands, Germany, Luxembourg, France and Belgium.

They all have bike lanes (well France sometimes have them) but what is different is that most bike lanes in The Netherlands are separated from other lanes. So you are and feel mutch safer.

So I believe that bike lanes are not enough. They should be realy separated from other trafic.

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