Interesting that the draft was predetermined (unlike the previous exhibition, which was live), allowing OpenAI to train ahead of time on a restricted set of matches. I wonder how long that was?
OpenAI Five at Dota 2 – The International [video]
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Re: OpenAI Five at Dota 2 – The International [video]
#42Outfought the humans in teamfights, other than that not sure how much long term strategic thought was shown.
OpenAI looked bad in the mid-game and non-competitive in the late-game. The team fight stuff is frustrating since it’s just learning perfect rotations where computers should obviously excel. Their continuing use of cool downs on creeps in the late game was baffling.
Re: OpenAI Five at Dota 2 – The International [video]
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't believe this is the case, as OpenAI was able to hex (an immediate disable) Earthshaker before he got off Echoslam (a spell with no cast delay except the time to click the key).
The ES player didn't queue his abilities so there was delay between blinking and casting echo. Someone counted the frames and it was well over the 200ms minimum.
Here is a post from the Dota 2 subreddit discussing the timing with proof that OpenAI's reaction was over the 200ms minimum:
https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/94vdpm/openai_hex_wa...
Re: OpenAI Five at Dota 2 – The International [video]
#44This time, OpenAI is playing a normal game without restrictions. Team Human got thoroughly trashed last time vs OpenAI in a game with hero restrictions. Go OpenAI! I For One welcome our new robot overlords.
Dropped the first game. Pretty funny that the last openAI bot attempted to feed mid.
Not familiar with dota but I watched the tail end of the stream, what does this mean?
Re: OpenAI Five at Dota 2 – The International [video]
#45Interesting that the draft was predetermined (unlike the previous exhibition, which was live), allowing OpenAI to train ahead of time on a restricted set of matches. I wonder how long that was?
Since Saturday they said.
Re: OpenAI Five at Dota 2 – The International [video]
#46The bots were using their ultimates pretty liberally. Maybe their "bot meta" is very group-intensive, so if they see one hero there's a good chance there are other heroes nearby? Other possible reasons: Opportunity cost of not using ultimates, getting a single kill late game can mean victory, bots penalized for games going later or their games just not running long in general?
Re: OpenAI Five at Dota 2 – The International [video]
#47The bots were using their ultimates pretty liberally. Maybe their "bot meta" is very group-intensive, so if they see one hero there's a good chance there are other heroes nearby? Other possible reasons: Opportunity cost of not using ultimates, getting a single kill late game can mean victory, bots penalized for games going later or their games just not running long in general?
I think it’s becoming clear that the network is overfitting to team fights (and other small duration action). OpenAI use of cooldowns in the last 20 minutes was inexcusable. It became obvious OpenAI had no working strategy.
Re: OpenAI Five at Dota 2 – The International [video]
#48For context: OpenAI is playing against a professional team this time, unlike the event a few weeks ago where the humans were skilled but not active pros or used to playing together. This team isn't the strongest (they placed 17-18th during this TI) but OpenAI will play again tomorrow and the day after, presumably against progressively better teams.
> his team isn't the strongest (they placed 17-18th during this TI) Oh, is that all :P. Assuming a 2x buffer for players who are good but not competitive, there are maybe 200 humans in the world who are better at DotA. If mastery is 1 in 10,000, these people are masters.
Many believe that it’s an exponential curve so there’s a substantial difference between the first and twentieth place teams.
Re: OpenAI Five at Dota 2 – The International [video]
#49For context: OpenAI is playing against a professional team this time, unlike the event a few weeks ago where the humans were skilled but not active pros or used to playing together. This team isn't the strongest (they placed 17-18th during this TI) but OpenAI will play again tomorrow and the day after, presumably against progressively better teams.
> his team isn't the strongest (they placed 17-18th during this TI) Oh, is that all :P. Assuming a 2x buffer for players who are good but not competitive, there are maybe 200 humans in the world who are better at DotA. If mastery is 1 in 10,000, these people are masters.
No, there are way more than 200 players better than Pain, all due respect to them. That’s clear by looking at leaderboards. But team dynamics and synergy in this game matter so much that they are definitely in the top 20 of teams regardless of their individual skill.
Seeing OpenAI do so well against this team impressed the hell out of me.
Re: OpenAI Five at Dota 2 – The International [video]
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
The ES player didn't queue his abilities so there was delay between blinking and casting echo. Someone counted the frames and it was well over the 200ms minimum.
Here is a post from the Dota 2 subreddit discussing the timing with proof that OpenAI's reaction was over the 200ms minimum: https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/94vdpm/openai_hex_wa...
Yeah. I agree. It was over the 200ms minimum but it was artificial. No human could reasonably perform that type of action as relilably. And that has nothing to do with learning performance.