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Someone Is Waging a Secret War to Undermine the Pentagon’s Huge Cloud Contract

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Re: Someone Is Waging a Secret War to Undermine the Pentagon’s Huge Cloud Contract

#41

Post by ryandrake »

ohthehugemanate wrote: post #14

Well... To be fair, it's an AWS spec sheet reworded as an RFP. Other cloud providers - even Google and Microsoft - can't meet the requirements, because they don't have the same marketing jargon. For example, there's a requirement in the RFP for a "ruggedized" storage product. That's a made up word that Amazon uses to describe AWS Snowball, so no other company satisfies the requirement. Some other AWS-only requirement…

Isn’t this commonplace in government contracting? You have a preferred vendor already, but must show the appearance of an open, fair bid, so you put your RFP out there—but is made as specific as possible, matching your preferred vendor’s product spec word-for-word, so only they can meet the requirements. This is kind of standard, run of the mill corruption that I thought was well known.

Re: Someone Is Waging a Secret War to Undermine the Pentagon’s Huge Cloud Contract

#42

Post by tremon »

jarym wrote: post #25

I am fairly sure the 'secret' is One Rich A Called Larry Ellisson. Quite possibly in a knock-off suit provided by Hammer Industries...

You forgot the -sshole.

It's off-topic, but this is what succesful censorship looks like: when you get to the point that people voluntarily self-censor (even on a pseudonymous network), the mission is accomplished.

Re: Someone Is Waging a Secret War to Undermine the Pentagon’s Huge Cloud Contract

#43

Post by pc86 »

ryandrake wrote: post #41
ohthehugemanate wrote: post #14

Well... To be fair, it's an AWS spec sheet reworded as an RFP. Other cloud providers - even Google and Microsoft - can't meet the requirements, because they don't have the same marketing jargon. For example, there's a requirement in the RFP for a "ruggedized" storage product. That's a made up word that Amazon uses to describe AWS Snowball, so no other company satisfies the requirement. Some other AWS-only requirement…

Isn’t this commonplace in government contracting? You have a preferred vendor already, but must show the appearance of an open, fair bid, so you put your RFP out there—but is made as specific as possible, matching your preferred vendor’s product spec word-for-word, so only they can meet the requirements. This is kind of standard, run of the mill corruption that I thought was well known.

The folks downvoting you have obviously never been in the rooms when RFPs are drafted. I've been in the room half a dozen times and in almost every case the RFP is written so one particular firm will win the bid, and at most 1-2 other firms are even qualified to respond.

Edit: Once while sitting on the private sector side of the table (yes RFPs were often drafted in consultation with the company that would eventually win them, if just informally), a [state] government employee expressed concern over the wording of a particular requirement because he was worried that it would open the door to our primary competitor being qualified to fulfill the bid.

Re: Someone Is Waging a Secret War to Undermine the Pentagon’s Huge Cloud Contract

#44

Post by pc86 »

th3iedkid wrote: post #11
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #2

It's Oracle. Safra is super close to the administration [1]. The only reason this contract is out of the hands of Booz Allen et al is Oracle. This might be the worst-kept tech secret in D.C. [1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-04-12/trump-tea...

Is your reference behind a paywall ?

You could always click it and find out.

Re: Someone Is Waging a Secret War to Undermine the Pentagon’s Huge Cloud Contract

#45

Post by pc86 »

tremon wrote: post #42
jarym wrote: post #25

I am fairly sure the 'secret' is One Rich A Called Larry Ellisson. Quite possibly in a knock-off suit provided by Hammer Industries...

You forgot the -sshole. It's off-topic, but this is what succesful censorship looks like: when you get to the point that people voluntarily self-censor (even on a pseudonymous network), the mission is accomplished.

I don't know about you but I don't want to come to HN and read a bunch of comments of people cursing. There's a difference between self-censorship and just being somewhat professional. I rather like the idea that people here will actually construct a coherent comment instead of just calling other people assholes.

Re: Someone Is Waging a Secret War to Undermine the Pentagon’s Huge Cloud Contract

#46

Post by ryandrake »

pc86 wrote: post #43
ryandrake wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t this commonplace in government contracting? You have a preferred vendor already, but must show the appearance of an open, fair bid, so you put your RFP out there—but is made as specific as possible, matching your preferred vendor’s product spec word-for-word, so only they can meet the requirements. This is kind of standard, run of the mill corruption that I thought was well known.

The folks downvoting you have obviously never been in the rooms when RFPs are drafted. I've been in the room half a dozen times and in almost every case the RFP is written so one particular firm will win the bid, and at most 1-2 other firms are even qualified to respond. Edit: Once while sitting on the private sector side of the table (yes RFPs were often drafted in consultation with the company that would eventually…

I’ve always recommended that software folks do a short tour of duty at a government contractor, purely for perspective. Its amazing to just watch how that sausage is made and why it’s made. You’ll come away with a renewed appreciation for working in the private sector on products that are made for people.

Re: Someone Is Waging a Secret War to Undermine the Pentagon’s Huge Cloud Contract

#47

Post by partiallypro »

If there is a "secret war," it's to undermine the corruption of the process. The contract is written, as most preferred vendor contracts are, in such a way that at most AWS would have 1-2 competitors which would still not meet the full spec...so AWS (the preferred provider) wins before bidding even begins.

Government does this all the time, it's a form of "capture" within the system.

Unfortunately Trump has given Bezos cover on a lot of things, simply by criticizing him. Because now if AWS loses the contract people will say Trump intervened or effected the bidding process. Amazon is growing in ways that other companies aren't, and it is unfortunately heavily subsidized by tax dollars, or deferred tax dollars.

Example: A recent piece about Amazon negotiating electricity rates, which in the end stiff locals with the brunt of the bill...then there's their corporate welfare rent seeking of HQ2...then there's this contract. They skirt taxes more than average. They treat their floor employees far far worse than Walmart or McDonald's.

It's beginning to get a bit ridiculous. If conspiracy theorists want to say Trump is behind the backlash (or a rogue corporation like Oracle,) go for it, but that's not the (full) truth. That's just a cover now, since anything (rightfully in many cases) connected with Trump's criticisms are tainted. Don't fall into that trap, Amazon is beginning to become a troublesome company. I don't know what to do about it, but rewarding them government contracts that are, in the end, rigged to be "no bid" isn't helping. Then on top of that, buying the Amazon line of not using multi-vendor fail overs is baffling. This may be a 10 year contract, but it's built to vendor lock the government.

Re: Someone Is Waging a Secret War to Undermine the Pentagon’s Huge Cloud Contract

#48

Post by joncrane »

ryandrake wrote: post #41
ohthehugemanate wrote: post #14

Well... To be fair, it's an AWS spec sheet reworded as an RFP. Other cloud providers - even Google and Microsoft - can't meet the requirements, because they don't have the same marketing jargon. For example, there's a requirement in the RFP for a "ruggedized" storage product. That's a made up word that Amazon uses to describe AWS Snowball, so no other company satisfies the requirement. Some other AWS-only requirement…

Isn’t this commonplace in government contracting? You have a preferred vendor already, but must show the appearance of an open, fair bid, so you put your RFP out there—but is made as specific as possible, matching your preferred vendor’s product spec word-for-word, so only they can meet the requirements. This is kind of standard, run of the mill corruption that I thought was well known.

It's not even necessarily corruption. The company they're wiring the bid for may indeed be the best option, they are just trying to minimize inefficiency.

Having said that, just as often, it's due to cronyism.

Re: Someone Is Waging a Secret War to Undermine the Pentagon’s Huge Cloud Contract

#50

Post by mr_overalls »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #2

It's Oracle. Safra is super close to the administration [1]. The only reason this contract is out of the hands of Booz Allen et al is Oracle. This might be the worst-kept tech secret in D.C. [1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-04-12/trump-tea...

Oracle is a cancer. Their hostility to their own customers is inexcusable. My company recently suffered through an Oracle audit, and we're being basically extorted to buy Oracle cloud products to avoid a lawsuit.

Their corporate culture is just rotten from the top down. Their sales reps' word is worthless, and the attitude is not "How can I help the customer," but "What's my leverage?" Sales people are trained not to find the right fit for their customers, but to exploit their ignorance. They take advantage of customers using opaque terms of service, bullying tactics, and outright deception. It's like they got their business ethics from watching Goodfellas and The Sopranos.

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