Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous • Hacker News Board

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#41

Post by TaylorAlexander » Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 1:42 PM UTC

claydavisss wrote: post #9

ModernMech wrote: post #4

> The nation was based on the notion that property ownership gives individuals a stake in the system. It set Americans apart from feudal peasants, taught us how property rights and incentives operate, and was a kind of training for future entrepreneurship. Then rents went up, education became more expensive, wages went stagnant, the rich got richer, and suddenly owning property and buying "stuff" to fuel the insatiab…

But society has willfully embraced living "in the present"...who here would give up their SF rental in exchange for a property in Gilroy they will eventually own? How many here would give up their leased 2018 BMW for a used Toyota Yaris?

I mean this is all what I’m considering. I hate working day in and day out in the Bay Area. I grew up in the Santa Cruz mountains in the forest and now I commute through an asphalt jungle to a concrete building where I’m pampered every day like a fragile snowflake. I’m constantly working to figure out how I could afford a home in the outskirts of this region. I’ve already moved from an Audi to a Honda although it’s kind of an expensive Honda, so I’m considering switching to something cheaper. And I’m dreaming of finding land in pescadero.

So to answer your question... some of us?

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#42

Post by EADGBE » Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 1:42 PM UTC

paulintrognon wrote: post #14

amelius wrote: post #6

It may be better for the environment to not own stuff, but instead use services. For example, take a fridge. If I buy a fridge, the company I buy it from has an incentive to make it break in N years, so they can sell me a new one, i.e. "planned obsolescence". However, if I subscribe to a service to keep my food and beverages at a certain temperature, then the company has the incentive to make the fridge last as long…

Interesting, but in your example how would the food be delivered to your home? But maybe a delivery service once a week or so is better than every individual taking their car to the supermarket? Interesting topic anyway.

They're only speaking of a service to keep food and beverages at a certain temperature. No delivery. That's another service.

And another line item on your revolving monthly expenses.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#43

Post by zurn » Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 1:42 PM UTC

Nervous because we might wreck the planet with overconsumptiona little later than thought?

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#44

Post by lerie82 » Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 1:42 PM UTC

I disagree and don't think the author knows what is going on in "the real world" today.

I still read books that I buy from the bookstore and would NEVER own a kindle. In fact I don't know many people who do own a kindle. My grandma owns one, she doesn't even use it anymore.

I still own and buy DVD's. I watch more videos on prime, netflix, and get movies from various other sources. However, when you don't have internet (or a TV with a USB), DVD's are still there.

Owning a car is still necessary in most places, and is still sought after by teenagers and adults alike.

I don't use a cell phone. I have one but its been dead in a drawer for over two years. I don't feel the need to have people be able to reach me 24 hours a day, it's a nuisance, and people are relying on it way to much these days.

The article is just a rant, an opinion of people (because there is an editor AND an author for some reason..) who don't know how to adapt and can't even see how to adapt to a changing world full of technology.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#45

Post by hexis » Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 1:42 PM UTC

ilamont wrote: post #15

Amazon’s Kindle and other methods of online reading have revolutionized how Americans consume text. Fifteen years ago, people typically owned the books and magazines they were reading. Much less so now. The statements about books are not accurate. Ebook sales are still just a fraction of print sales in many genres - NPD data indicates ebooks are less than 20% of total unit sales for nonfiction, children, and young ad…

Let's assume ebooks are 20% (I know that's the upper bound you're positing, but let's start with that). If my salary were reduced by 20%, I would definitely say that I was making "much less". Would I say the same if my salary were reduced by, say, 10% rather than 20%? Maybe, maybe not, but I doubt I'd go so far as to say that characterization was simply "not accurate".

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#46

Post by anovikov » Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 1:43 PM UTC

The 'idea of private property' is about private ownership of means of production, which is what definition of capitalism is. Basically it is about idea of owning capital privately and start your own business employing that capital, with a goal to increase that capital. It is not about owning 'stuff'. And in that sense, it is not going anywhere. So i think it is an empty reason to worry.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#47

Post by March_f6 » Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 1:44 PM UTC

1.) How does the market (in the most basic sense) make any meaningful distinction between "owning" a rack of DVDs and "owning" a Netflix subscription? Both are transactions where resources are being traded for "goods".

2.)The idea of spending more resources on experiences rather than goods has become more pervasive over the years so the trend of people owning less stuff would make sense.

3.)This is a little more in the weeds but it's funny to think about how a society's definition of wealth changes over time and how that might affect consumer behavior.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#48

Post by justinrstout » Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 1:44 PM UTC

This article makes a lot of unsubstantiated claims and is very light on actual data. For example a blatant assertion like "Amazon’s Kindle and other methods of online reading have revolutionized how Americans consume text." has no support in the article itself. For what it's worth I know only a few people that use e-books; the majority purchases and reads plain old paper books. Likewise, "...now viewers stream movies or TV shows with Netflix...now Spotify and YouTube are more commonly used to hear our favorite tunes....". This is unsubstantiated. Nearly all of the video content I want to watch is not available on Netflix; and anything that is is liable to disappear at any time. Just last month I purchased VHS tapes, DVDs, and Blu-rays to get content I wanted, so if the writer isn't going to go to the effort of researching and presenting information, then my anecdotal experience completely contradicts this thinkpiece.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#49

Post by AdmiralAsshat » Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 1:44 PM UTC

Oh goody, another article telling me why everything I do as a Millennial is wrong.

Here's what we were told as children: "My gosh, you always want more toys, more comics, more videogames. Don't you ever get enough? What's wrong with you!"

As teenagers/young adults: "Look at all this crap you've collected over the years, taking up all this room, and you're barely an adult! You'll never have space for all this when you move out into a tiny apartment. What's wrong with you!"

As adults: "Why aren't you buying physical things and hoarding crap anymore? What's wrong with you!"

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#50

Post by EADGBE » Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 1:44 PM UTC

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #25

amelius wrote: post #6

It may be better for the environment to not own stuff, but instead use services. For example, take a fridge. If I buy a fridge, the company I buy it from has an incentive to make it break in N years, so they can sell me a new one, i.e. "planned obsolescence". However, if I subscribe to a service to keep my food and beverages at a certain temperature, then the company has the incentive to make the fridge last as long…

An essentially never discussed option is also that the fridge could be open source. Now when it breaks there is both motive and opportunity for third party repair companies to offer upgrades and fixes.

Needing to make a fridge open sources screams at me that we really need to be simplifying the operation of a fridge.

I think component complication for planned obsolescence is much more of a thing than programming something in X years to kill itself.