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What happens when you ask people to draw a bike (2016)

gianlucagimini.it

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Re: What happens when you ask people to draw a bike (2016)

#41

Post by jacobolus »

jdietrich wrote: post #34
thethirdone wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least for me, the mechanical skill with the pencil does hold me back for non-organic shapes. I have trouble sketching things I can see clearly, but its not significantly harder for things I am only familiar with. For example, if I tried to sketch my bike, I would have no trouble getting the structure correct, but I would have trouble getting smooth wheels.

You don't have to draw freehand. A t-square, a pair of compasses and a set of French curves are pretty much essential if you want to accurately draw precise geometric forms.

This seems like moving the goalposts.

You also don’t have to draw “free eye”. There are plenty of tools you can use like tracing paper, photographic references, coloring books with the lines already drawn, ...

None of my illustrator friends use french curves or compasses to do their sketching, and usually even skip using a straightedge, but through practice can make very nice straight lines, right angles, circles, other curved lines, etc.

Hand-eye coordination at the level that professionals have takes an incredible amount of training/practice. It’s hard to imagine how you would even disentangle their practice at mental visualization vs. practice at proprioception, etc.

Re: What happens when you ask people to draw a bike (2016)

#42

Post by atourgates »

duderific wrote: post #18

If you scroll down, the designer has produced images that match some of the ideas from the sketches. They are beautiful and mesmerizing. At first I thought he had actually built out the physical bicycles from the sketches, but it turns out they are just computer renderings. Nonetheless it shows the power of "mistake" driven design, to generate novel ideas.

As odd at is - this[1] design has a couple elements that have been reproduced in the real world.

While the exact 2wd system shown in the rendering would have some real issues, 2wd mountain bike systems do exist. They can rely on impressively strange chain routing[2], a system of gears and internal shafts[3], or just an electric hub[4] (which is admittedly, not really the same thing).

As far as the one-sided frame goes, Canondale makes a one-sided fork called the Lefty[5], that's in mass production and reasonably popular. One-sided rear triangles only seem to exist on motorcycles, and there's an interesting discussion here[6] on why that's the case, with an example of a one-off "righty" bicycle.

[1] http://www.gianlucagimini.it/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Gian...

[2] https://www.singletracks.com/blog/mtb-gear/all-wheel-drive-m...

[3] http://christinibicycles.com/

[4] https://newatlas.com/easy-motion-evo-awd-big-bud-ebike/54434...

[5] https://www.cannondale.com/en/International/Innovation/lefty...

[6] http://forums.mtbr.com/general-discussion/why-dont-we-have-l...

Re: What happens when you ask people to draw a bike (2016)

#43

Post by 21 »

jonshariat wrote: post #10

I think this is a great example that shows how our brains remember/recognize things. (Which may be help in machine learning) This is how people have remembered a bike. 2 wheels, spaced apart Metal connecting Pedal in the middle Seat on top Handlebars connected to the front wheel. The details of how it's connected, where, spacing, etc. Isn't really noted by our brains unless they see/use them often. I wonder if this e…

I agree, but I also wonder how much motivation is a factor.

What would happen if the author said after the first drawing: "this bicycle is terrible and this bike would never work. Take this seriously, think about the mechanics of it, and I will pay you 1000 dollars if you get it correct"

As in, these pictures are just raw memory dumps, with minimal cognitive filtering. When stakes are higher, cognition should kick in and fix lower level errors.

Re: What happens when you ask people to draw a bike (2016)

#44

Post by macintux »

21 wrote: post #37
Buldak wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that a good comparison? How often does the average person actually see either of those things? The reason it's surprising that people struggle to draw bikes from memory is that most of us see them all the time.

The brain doesn't work like a photo camera. It remembers strictly the minimum required to do it's job, in a highly abstract and compressed form. How a bike fits together it's kind of irrelevant for most people, even if you ride one or if you must dodge one.

Which is effectively the point of the article.

Re: What happens when you ask people to draw a bike (2016)

#45

Post by ianbicking »

douchescript wrote: post #33
ianbicking wrote: post #26

I'm looking at the third one down and wondering: why aren't all-wheel-drive bikes a thing? (Well, steering...) I guess there is such a thing: http://christinibicycles.com/ – sounds pretty complicated: 'A handlebar-mounted switch controls the AWD “shift on the fly” clutch. When the clutch is engaged, the rear spiral gear interlocks with the rear hub and power is transferred via internal shafts to the forward spiral ge…

My electrib bike is AWD. Electric in the front and mechanical in the back. Very good for recovery on a patch of ice, impossible with just back wheel drive.

What does it feel like when you aren't peddling and it's just front-wheel drive?

Re: What happens when you ask people to draw a bike (2016)

#46

Post by eitally »

jdietrich wrote: post #7

Drawing and painting is almost entirely a visual skill. The mechanical skills of wielding a pencil or mixing paint are almost trivial; the hard part is being able to see what's actually there. A bicycle is an incredibly simple visual form. You can doodle one in about five seconds. They're not rare or unusual objects and they're relatively homogenous. Nonetheless, most people have never actually seen a bicycle. They'v…

If you Google "learning how to see [like an artist]" type of queries, you'll find lots of useful information, like this:

http://www.learning-to-see.co.uk/negative-shapes-design

Re: What happens when you ask people to draw a bike (2016)

#47

Post by pwg »

jonshariat wrote: post #10

I think this is a great example that shows how our brains remember/recognize things. (Which may be help in machine learning) This is how people have remembered a bike. 2 wheels, spaced apart Metal connecting Pedal in the middle Seat on top Handlebars connected to the front wheel. The details of how it's connected, where, spacing, etc. Isn't really noted by our brains unless they see/use them often. I wonder if this e…

> I think this is a great example that shows how our brains remember/recognize things.

It may also have much to do with 'who' was asked. As an Engineer, I immediately noticed the missing frame member on the first rendering image at the very top of the web page. But, most people one would meet 'on the street' are not Engineers, and they very likely do not even look at a bike with a 'how does this work' eye. And if one does not even try to 'analyze' the bike mechanism, even a little, one surely will never remember the constituent parts.

Re: What happens when you ask people to draw a bike (2016)

#48

Post by rhinoceraptor »

ianbicking wrote: post #26

I'm looking at the third one down and wondering: why aren't all-wheel-drive bikes a thing? (Well, steering...) I guess there is such a thing: http://christinibicycles.com/ – sounds pretty complicated: 'A handlebar-mounted switch controls the AWD “shift on the fly” clutch. When the clutch is engaged, the rear spiral gear interlocks with the rear hub and power is transferred via internal shafts to the forward spiral ge…

I can only imagine how much of a nightmare working on one of those bikes would be. Plus the efficiency losses and extra weight, I don't think AWD bikes will ever be common.

Re: What happens when you ask people to draw a bike (2016)

#49

Post by gnicholas »

huphtur wrote: post #15
userbinator wrote: post #9

It would be interesting to split the respondents into two groups, one who rides bikes regularly and one who doesn't, and compare the results. The "2WD" ones are particularly perplexing. On the other hand, I bet if you asked people to draw a car, 99% of them would draw something realistic --- it's the arrangement of the frame tubes on a bike that most people just haven't looked at in detail or remembered.

Pro cyclists asked to draw a bike in 15 seconds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hXwbgio5cU

Wonder how their mechanics would have done.

I think the only reason I could draw a bike with any accuracy is because my dad taught me how to fix it. Otherwise it would be a complete black box.

Re: What happens when you ask people to draw a bike (2016)

#50

Post by edgarvaldes »

jonshariat wrote: post #10

I think this is a great example that shows how our brains remember/recognize things. (Which may be help in machine learning) This is how people have remembered a bike. 2 wheels, spaced apart Metal connecting Pedal in the middle Seat on top Handlebars connected to the front wheel. The details of how it's connected, where, spacing, etc. Isn't really noted by our brains unless they see/use them often. I wonder if this e…

I think it's funny how many comments give great importance to the object being a bicycle or the person being a bike rider to explain the output.
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