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Handshake: An experimental peer-to-peer root DNS

handshake.org

41–50 of 62 posts

Re: Handshake: An experimental peer-to-peer root DNS

#41
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This provides a replacement for the root zone and not does not directly include subdomains. In DNS terms this is like registering a TLD. So if you own "companyx.com" domain, you could register "companyx" on handshake. Once you own this domain you can use your private key associated to set your name servers / other DNS settings, so subdomains could fallback to using existing DNS resolution, or this could resolve direc…

I'm curious how this would work out at scale. Would everyone just get a long descriptive TLD and then use that directly? While that would technically work I imagine it would confuse people who are used to treat the address bar of the browser primarily as the search box. So I'd enter "flowers" and expect a Google search for flowers, but since the TLD flowers exists and resolves to something you end up on some dude's b…

That's a relatively new UI behavior popularized by Google Chrome. If you use Firefox, for instance, you can have two text boxes: one for the URL and another one for searching.

Re: Handshake: An experimental peer-to-peer root DNS

#42
post #37

This seems like a neat idea but the economics are that of a for profit business, and I think we learned that handing domains to a for profit (NetworkSolutions) was a bad idea. 7% going to contributors and 7% going to financial backers is a pretty big incentive. [0] I’d rather see this set up as a non profit foundation or a community driven trust and run in an OSS way for the financial elements. As it is, I don’t thin…

Interesting. I suppose it's only a matter of time until someone forks it and changes or lowers those incentives?

But they will have to re-build the user base and since handshake.org is literally giving away $10m to build it's user base, it might be difficult.

Re: Handshake: An experimental peer-to-peer root DNS

#43
This project is really exciting.

If I could make a suggestion to the maintainers - I think it would be helpful to put the "project paper" in an additional format besides just the text file.

The handksahake.org site is really easy on the eyes but I found reading through a text file of this length quite a slog.

Re: Handshake: An experimental peer-to-peer root DNS

#44
post #33
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how to avoid squatting? People started buying up tons of obvious namecoin names while they were cheap, as speculators.

Why is squatting a problem that needs to be solved? Serious question.

Because names are scarce and squatting produces inefficiency. Someone who wants to make productive use of the name has to pay a middle man in order to do it, which reduces their resources available to do the useful thing and unjustly enriches the middle man who has provided nothing of value to anyone compared to the situation where nobody registers the name until they have a use for it. (Or, if multiple legitimate users want the same name at the outset, compared to having an auction where money goes somewhere meritorious like paying the cost of maintaining the naming system instead of to the jerk with the fastest computer.)

Although one of the best ways to discourage squatting is to reduce scarcity. Have hundreds of TLDs (.cars, .bank, .farm, .repair, .plumber, .housing, etc.), or if you're not ICANN and don't want to pollute the global namespace with multiple TLDs then second level domains (.cars.bit, bank.bit, etc.)

Then a squatter has to register hundreds of times as many names and each name has hundreds of times fewer prospective buyers. Combine this with some nominal cost ($10/year) to holding a name, irrelevant to normal users but prohibitive to someone who wants to hold trillions of names hostage. And which you want to have regardless to be able to reclaim names that have been abandoned.

Re: Handshake: An experimental peer-to-peer root DNS

#45
post #35
post #15

Compared to other crypto projects, what really excites me is there is already a fully functioning testnet, SPV resolver, and C bindings available on day of announcement! Main-net launch only 1 month away. Other crypto projects should take note. This is how to prove you're serious.

This argument could have been valid 2 years ago, but now there are plenty crypto projects in both testnet and mainnet phases.

How many have simulators?

Re: Handshake: An experimental peer-to-peer root DNS

#46
Technical merits aside...

Why was this done as an alternate root project rather than an alternate tld? I get it makes the project more useful (ability to register .johnsmith rather than johnsmith.bit), but it's going to severely increase complications when interoperating with the ICANN dns root.

what happens if you register .foobar on handshake, and then a few years later, ICANN delegates .foorbar? If you let the ICANN registration take precedence, all the .foobar domain owners on handshake side will lose their registrations. The threat of that will keep most people from using tlds registered on handshake. Why buy a domain on .foobar (handshake root) rather than .foobaz (ICANN root)? It might cost a few bucks more, but honestly I'd be willing to pay a few dollars/year more knowing my domain is secure.

Of course, it's possible that operator of the ICANN tld would give an opportunity for the domain owners on the handshake side to migrate over, but then they'd miss out on all the revenue on those premium domains. why allow the old owners of pizza.foobar keep their domain when you can resell it for $$$?

The project mentions that they have pre-reserved certain TLDs, but all that does is delay the inevitable. The first conflicts are going to be with yet-to-be-delegated gTLDs, since they're not in the current root (obviously), and they're not in the alexa 100k (while they're some sites with generic words as domains, most of them are squatted, which means they're probably not in the alexa 100k).

The only hope of this project surviving is if they gain critical mass and overtake ICANN as the most popular root. The network effect is insane with DNS (maybe even higher than with social networks), so unless there's a good reason for everyone to use this, I think this project will stay very niche.

Re: Handshake: An experimental peer-to-peer root DNS

#47
post #37

This seems like a neat idea but the economics are that of a for profit business, and I think we learned that handing domains to a for profit (NetworkSolutions) was a bad idea. 7% going to contributors and 7% going to financial backers is a pretty big incentive. [0] I’d rather see this set up as a non profit foundation or a community driven trust and run in an OSS way for the financial elements. As it is, I don’t thin…

Interesting. I suppose it's only a matter of time until someone forks it and changes or lowers those incentives? But they will have to re-build the user base and since handshake.org is literally giving away $10m to build it's user base, it might be difficult.

I think registries like this are hard to fork because there is so much buy-in required from a critical mass of users for any change.

I think we are better off with some sort of community consensus protocol and the only benefit of giving away “$10m” is to gain even more money for the developers. Standards should be open or driven by a commodity cost model, not a “inventor gets rich” model. Their plan accounts for plans when the chain value is over $50B. That is unlikely, but it means there’s a model in the developers plans where $7B in value is held by the developers and investors.

DNS and other Internet standards never would have succeeded using compensation models like this. I can’t think of any RFCs that would have such payouts for the main contributors.

Re: Handshake: An experimental peer-to-peer root DNS

#48
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what happens when one of these large mining operations in China/South pacific/etc target this network and begin accumulating all the handshake "coins". How would someone 3 years from now have access to generate coins/tokens after the protocol increases the difficulty and stops generating coins so easily? Wouldn't it be cheaper just to run a normal DNS server? What's the use case?

Even better, what happens when a mining operation decides to mount a 51% attack and take over a root resolver? If I’m understanding the point of this correctly (big if...), then they’d be able to route any TLD anywhere they’d like. Combined with DNS caching for extended chaos.

They wouldn't be able to immediately route any TLD anywhere they'd like, but they could certainly screw with the network.

They would have to expend hashing power solving a previously solved block puzzle while continuing to build the blockchain off their new branch and ensure that its total difficulty is greater than any competing chain.

So suppose you immediately buy up TLD "foo", get a single confirmation on it, and publish it to your fanbase. The 51% attacker would be able to a) use their hashing power to publish their different solution to the block where your TLD got included, b) include their own purchase of "foo" in their alternate block, and c) continue building on their alternate chain to make it the canonical state of the transaction db. So your fanbase would look for "foo" and get the attacker's zone.

However, if we're five years into Handshake's existence and you hold one of the very first TLDs published in their blockchain, the attacker cannot immediately take over your TLD. They'd have to go back to the block where you made your purchase (or I guess when you renewed) and solve puzzles all the way up until the total difficulty of their chain exceeds the current canonical chain. Which they can do with 51% given enough time.

Also note that an attacker can begin/develop a 51% attack without publishing anything at all to the network.

Re: Handshake: An experimental peer-to-peer root DNS

#49
post #46

Technical merits aside... Why was this done as an alternate root project rather than an alternate tld? I get it makes the project more useful (ability to register .johnsmith rather than johnsmith.bit), but it's going to severely increase complications when interoperating with the ICANN dns root. what happens if you register .foobar on handshake, and then a few years later, ICANN delegates .foorbar? If you let the ICA…

This is a great objection. I nevertheless fail to see why making it a TLD would help any.

A particular TLD (.bit) would clash with ICANN the same, unless someone would keep shelling $185k/y for keeping it up. This does not look very realistic. Registering a TLD is the only official way to interact with ICANN in this area, and I don't see ICANN making any concessions to an outright competitor. Even if registered, such a domain would make little sense: now every Handshake user would depend on ICANN again, hoping it will not hand the TLD to some other registrar (e.g. due to a failure to pay the yearly $185k). This sort of defeats one of the purposes of the project.

Not having a single traditional TLD at the end does have upsides. Any name with a long TLD immediately stands out as a Handshake name. Any reasonable person would register a domain very unlikely to clash with ICANN's TLDs. The lack of need to belong to a handful of TLDs allows to e.g. use dashes instead of dots, lowering the chance of a conflict: not joe.crypto.exchange but joe-crypto-exchange. (Of course people who want to squat short common words likely to be made TLDs by ICANN may do it at their own peril.)

Explicitly being at odds with ICANN forces the project to handle this outright, add a conflict-resolution policy applied at the client side: on a conflict, prefer which source at which domain? How to indicate a conflict anyway? There are no one-size-fits-all solutions here, but reasonable solutions should exist.

In general, I think the technical merits outweigh the risk of name clashes significantly for almost any reasonable user. (Unreasonable users will always exist; they should not be paid too much attention.)

Re: Handshake: An experimental peer-to-peer root DNS

#50
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This provides a replacement for the root zone and not does not directly include subdomains. In DNS terms this is like registering a TLD. So if you own "companyx.com" domain, you could register "companyx" on handshake. Once you own this domain you can use your private key associated to set your name servers / other DNS settings, so subdomains could fallback to using existing DNS resolution, or this could resolve direc…

I'm curious how this would work out at scale. Would everyone just get a long descriptive TLD and then use that directly? While that would technically work I imagine it would confuse people who are used to treat the address bar of the browser primarily as the search box. So I'd enter "flowers" and expect a Google search for flowers, but since the TLD flowers exists and resolves to something you end up on some dude's b…

Chrome already handles this: if you want the domain enter in the protocol - https://

If you want to search leave it off.

On top of that Chrome already has the ability to redirect you straight to the domain if it is well defined. I can't imagine it difficult to move that logic to google redirects instead.

e.g. "test.vm" goes to a google search despite being url format. "test.dev" goes to domain.

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