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Young people don’t want construction jobs

wsj.com

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Re: Young people don’t want construction jobs

#41

Post by bobthepanda »

wccrawford wrote: post #30
CydeWeys wrote: post #11

Wow, the entire article doesn't mention once what the average wage for entry-level construction workers is. That's probably a huge part of the puzzle -- to omit that seems almost intentionally misleading, or at least bad journalism. Also, construction is a job that's notoriously hard on your body. You can't count on being able to do it into your 60s like office work, and one bad accident can end your career in constr…

Seems like $14.07. https://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Construction_Labore... Even "Construction Worker" doesn't bring it up much ($14.75), which means there's nothing in that career directly. https://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Construction_Worker... The next step in that career is to be a manager or foreman. The Foreman only gets $22.36. ($38k/yr) https://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Construction_Fore…

Depends on the market you're in and what you can do.

> A crane operator in New York City earns $82.15 an hour in base pay and benefits, according to the Engineer News-Record, a trade publication. That's well's above the $66 an hour he would earn in Chicago or the $39 an hour in Washington, D.C.

> But the real reason New York crane operators and other operating engineers earn such big salaries is overtime and benefits. A relief crane operator working 56 hours of overtime per week for 52 weeks will earn $332,667 in overtime and $159,053 in overtime benefits at the World Trade Center. As a worker's salaries go up, so do the amounts employers must kick in for annuities and pensions.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702303936704576399...

Re: Young people don’t want construction jobs

#42

Post by patrickaljord »

nickthemagicman wrote: post #17
dccoolgai wrote: post #8

Why would they? You've spent the last 30 years telling them not to do those jobs, devaluing them with globalization and de-unionizing them to make sure those jobs don't create any kind of sustainable lifestyle for the people that do them. Someone on HN a while back gave some good advice: whenever you see "people won't do X job", append in your mind the qualifier "for Y underpaid salary/benefits package".

On point. You want people just give then good salaryies, benefits, and career growth.

I know a few people in construction, they started working for someone by fixing doors, do painting etc. until they learned enough to find their own clients. It's easier than you think to find a friend who needs something to get fixed and get more clients from there by doing local advertising or even door to door knocking to check if people need some fixes. These people I know now hire their own workers (and still work themselves too) and make more than many college graduates I know.

Not saying anyone who gets into construction makes millions but there definitely is a path for growth and good pay is possible. It is however not a glamorous job, you need to get your hand dirty and work with some unhealthy products you need to protect yourself from (as much as you can at least...). It's a tough job but it does pay well. I personally wouldn't do it because of the physical aspect but financially it is definitely interesting.

Re: Young people don’t want construction jobs

#43

Post by godzillabrennus »

49531 wrote: post #35
e40 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And part of telling them not to do those jobs was the college for everyone idea. It was a good ideal, but the problem is, going to college and getting that English 4-year degree doesn't really help you get a job that pays enough to pay off those student loans and save for retirement. What they said on Prairie Home Companion was correct, everyone does thing their child is exceptional and should go to college instead o…

I agree that stigmatizing trades has contributed to this issue, but we've also simultaneously made trades worse by allowing their unions to decay and be deregulating the industries that use them.

Over the last 40 years the trades also had influx of illegal immigrants entering the profession. These have been folks who were willing to do the very difficult work for less pay and no recourse if the conditions were unsafe.

Obviously not all trades as most firms won’t gamble using unlicensed electricians and plumbers. On the other hand roofing, drywall, concrete, etc... have been more readily given to folks who work for pennies on the dollar.

Re: Young people don’t want construction jobs

#44

Post by colek42 »

wccrawford wrote: post #30
CydeWeys wrote: post #11

Wow, the entire article doesn't mention once what the average wage for entry-level construction workers is. That's probably a huge part of the puzzle -- to omit that seems almost intentionally misleading, or at least bad journalism. Also, construction is a job that's notoriously hard on your body. You can't count on being able to do it into your 60s like office work, and one bad accident can end your career in constr…

Seems like $14.07. https://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Construction_Labore... Even "Construction Worker" doesn't bring it up much ($14.75), which means there's nothing in that career directly. https://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Construction_Worker... The next step in that career is to be a manager or foreman. The Foreman only gets $22.36. ($38k/yr) https://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Construction_Fore…

You can make quite a bit more. It is pretty easy to start your business as a tradesman when you have experience, without employees you can easily net over 100k a year in low cost of living markets. Also, many construction workers get the benefit of side jobs and overtime. Definitely not an easy life, but there is something that can be said about the satisfaction you get after building something physical.

Re: Young people don’t want construction jobs

#45

Post by lotsofpulp »

nickthemagicman wrote: post #17
dccoolgai wrote: post #8

Why would they? You've spent the last 30 years telling them not to do those jobs, devaluing them with globalization and de-unionizing them to make sure those jobs don't create any kind of sustainable lifestyle for the people that do them. Someone on HN a while back gave some good advice: whenever you see "people won't do X job", append in your mind the qualifier "for Y underpaid salary/benefits package".

On point. You want people just give then good salaryies, benefits, and career growth.

There is a very high price to pay to make up for ruining your body in some types of work involving repetitive and straining motions. Only reason is until now people didn't have options and had to do it, and didn't know about it. But now people are living longer, and there's lots of data about how different occupations fare in their later years. Any kid can see the lifestyle difference between the kids of manual laborers versus office workers.

Being able to see your family on a regular basis, being home, not risking your life driving everywhere, all of these have to be made up for in pay.

Re: Young people don’t want construction jobs

#46

Post by null000 »

> generally well-paid [1]

Three seconds on google suggests that they make not well paid, especially for a job that's fickle and physically demanding. Hell, that's barely above minimum wage (I'm in a $15/hr area, minimum wage is $32k) - I can get an office job tomorrow paying close to the same with basically no effort.

As usual, whenever someone blames labor for labor shortages, just look at the wages. If you pay less than a waiter earns with tips while demanding more out of your workers, don't expect people to be lining up at the door. Same goes for farm labor. Same goes for teachers. Same goes for truckers. And so on.

[1] - taken from the Non-WSJ alternative in the comments below

Re: Young people don’t want construction jobs

#47

Post by learc83 »

OldSchoolJohnny wrote: post #32
learc83 wrote: post #22

What's the endgame for construction workers? Everyone can't move into management. Many people's bodies can't handle that kind of manual labor for 40 years, and even if they could construction jobs tend to be insecure. If you want people to make those trade offs you have to pay more. This kind of rhetoric from companies drives me nuts. They push to remove regulations, but when the free market says they have to pay mor…

The end game used to be wealthy retirement because it paid extremely well. And on a side note people's bodies can and do handle that kind of manual labour for 40+ years. Not all of course, some get hurt, some are not cut out for it, but go to any manual work site and you will see older people in their 50's and 60's still in excellent physical shape doing it and younger people doing the really hard shitty jobs since t…

>older people in their 50's and 60's

I edited "most people" to "many people" because I really don't have the numbers.

From anecdotal experience from friends and family, I'd think most people won't make it through 40 years of hard manual labor without injury. For every 60 year old you see on a job site, we don't know how many of their peers have stopped working construction.

Re: Young people don’t want construction jobs

#48

Post by LargeWu »

platz wrote: post #15
conanbatt wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There isnt a market for that: increased wages would increase house prices and the developer estimates he cant sell the house. If land were cheaper you would see rising wages.

"a labor shortage that has meant fewer homes built and rising prices " (emhasis added) So are prices rising or aren't they?

Prices are definitely rising, but it's debatable whether that's due to a labor shortage.

Re: Young people don’t want construction jobs

#49

Post by PantaloonFlames »

yellowcherry wrote: post #23
tekstar wrote: post #10

These types of jobs eventually burn out your body. You used to be able to buy a house and grow a family on these wages, and eventually retire. With that no longer being the case, why would anyone with choice choose this option?

My dad did these jobs his whole life. He's in still in better shape than I've ever been and has a union pension better than anything any company has ever offered me. So.

Yep. My Father-in-law worked logging, fishing boats, and construction all his life and is now mid-70's, strong as an ox, very fit, very capable and knows how to do just about anything. Still working construction. Lighter jobs, but still.

He's lost his hearing, but that's genetic; nothing to do with his labor.

Re: Young people don’t want construction jobs

#50

Post by blanderman »

wccrawford wrote: post #30
CydeWeys wrote: post #11

Wow, the entire article doesn't mention once what the average wage for entry-level construction workers is. That's probably a huge part of the puzzle -- to omit that seems almost intentionally misleading, or at least bad journalism. Also, construction is a job that's notoriously hard on your body. You can't count on being able to do it into your 60s like office work, and one bad accident can end your career in constr…

Seems like $14.07. https://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Construction_Labore... Even "Construction Worker" doesn't bring it up much ($14.75), which means there's nothing in that career directly. https://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Construction_Worker... The next step in that career is to be a manager or foreman. The Foreman only gets $22.36. ($38k/yr) https://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Construction_Fore…

That website does not seem very comprehensive. The government makes thorough statistics on income available for free: https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes470000.htm
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