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Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech companies

businessinsider.com

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Re: Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech companies

#41

Post by ng12 »

kennxfl wrote: post #17
optimusclimb wrote: post #3

Man - California, specifically the Valley, is completely off its rocker when it comes to policy making. I really hope Amazon's new HQ helps pave the way to start de-centralizing the tech industry from that one, overcrowded, and increasingly almost hostile spot.

True but its mostly Northern Cal legislators right? I guess restaurants have lobbied successfully. They want some of that tech money too.

> They want some of that tech money too.

The strips of bougie overpriced restaurants that haunt Palo Alto, MTV, and Sunnyvale are already getting it.

Re: Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech companies

#42

Post by dunpeal »

seehafer wrote: post #15
panzagl wrote: post #9

This is how businesses get driven to the suburbs.

That is the usual refrain from the "die techie scum" SF denizens: "go back to the suburbs!" Unfortunately the suburbs are now hostile too: https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/New-Facebook-Offices-M...

MTV isn't "hostile" to tech. It just got greedy and is trying to get more out of its resident tech companies.

"So we have all these big tech companies opening offices in our town... How do we get more out of them... Let's force their employees to buy their food in local stores by banning free food... Let's tax them a bit more..."

Etc.

This will work in the short term, especially when some of these rules only apply to new offices.

It will fail on the long term, as more and more companies question the wisdom of setting up shops in the Valley and California in general, and move to locations with much lower tax and restrictions, such as Austin TX.

Re: Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech companies

#43

Post by dragonwriter »

exabrial wrote: post #30
Varcht wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freedom of religion, speech, press, petition, and assembly. Nope food's not in there, but perhaps I'm being too originalist. Eminent Domain is a thing too.

An oft repeated fallacy... Originalism applies when it extends the rights of the people or restricts the government, not the other way around.

The right to self-rule outside the enumerated powers of the federal government (and thus, the general police power of the states) is a right of the people against the federal government.

Re: Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech companies

#44

Post by beamatronic »

There is a lot of good food in this area (San Antonio shopping center in Mountain View), places that would draw the workers on their own merits anyway. Sajj, Chef Chu’s, Dittmers, Mamacitas food truck, Paul Martin, Pacific Fresh, several pho places, I could go on.

Re: Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech companies

#45

Post by gesman »

gregschlom wrote: post #38
jorts wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The stupid thing is that most of the tech companies, outside of the giant ones, get their food from local retailers.

This proposal would ban the construction of office cafeterias so if you're just serving free catered food (which is what most small and medium companies do, I'd guess) it's fine.

Exactly. Why waste space for cafeteria. I like to eat at my desk anyways.

Re: Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech companies

#46

Post by Shikadi »

optimusclimb wrote: post #3

Man - California, specifically the Valley, is completely off its rocker when it comes to policy making. I really hope Amazon's new HQ helps pave the way to start de-centralizing the tech industry from that one, overcrowded, and increasingly almost hostile spot.

I'd just like to point out that Amazon HQ isn't in California, it's in Washington over near Microsoft, separated by half of California and the state of Oregon. Either way, I hope the same

Re: Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech companies

#47

Post by klipt »

ropans808 wrote: post #29
jorts wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The stupid thing is that most of the tech companies, outside of the giant ones, get their food from local retailers.

Yeah, the proposed legislation mentioned in the article in San Francisco just banning the construction of onsite cafeterias seems to recognize this at least.

So you can construct a cafeteria so long as it's "offsite", and even give employees free meals if they show their badge?

Re: Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech companies

#48

Post by dragonwriter »

xienze wrote: post #27
dragonwriter wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the penny-per-meal charge would be a tiny amount of income which, presuming deductible business expenses did not increase to absorb it, would be subject to corporate income tax (which is really a retained profits tax.) None of the companies involved are even going to notice it.

No, it’s the value of the free meals that’s considered taxable income. IIRC there was already a controversy about this a couple years ago. Employees getting the equivalent of what, $20 in free food every day? That adds up to real money.

The decision to charge a penny by the company doesn't change that in any meaningful way, AFAICT, so it may be a tax issue for employees, but it doesn't seem relevant to the proposal that was being discussed.

Re: Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech companies

#49

Post by DannyBee »

chatmasta wrote: post #5

Can anyone comment on the legality of this? IANAL and it’s just a feeling, but it seems like this must be unconstitutional somehow?

It's likely legal for states to do it It would not be legal for the feds.

There are fun loopholes though. Here's the text of the condition for facebook.

"CAFETERIA CONDITION: In order to foster synergy between office, restaurant, and retail uses in the Center and realize the economic vitality of the project, the project anticipates employees in the office space will utilize food and retail services available in the Center. The applicant will encourage tenants and employees of tenants to utilize food and retail services available in the Center. Neither the applicant nor tenant(s) will subsidize meals by more than fifty percent (50%) or provide free meals for employees in the office space on a regular daily basis. An employer can subsidize or pay for employee meals as long as they are patronizing restaurants in the Center.

In addition: The applicant may make a request to amend this condition. The City Manager or a designee may make a recommendation to the City Council on this matter."

So for example:

Facebook could open a restaurant in the center. If it does, it cannot legally choose to discriminate in who they serve (in california, anyway. In a lot of states you often can).

It can, however, legally price discriminate in various ways (AFAIK, if someone has case law otherwise, love to see it). This is in fact, quite common.

So for example, it could charge the public that walks in 1 million a meal. It could offer advance tickets to employees at no charge, and no one else.

This is also non-discriminatory on the basis of race, color, religion, or national origin (which is what the 1964 civil rights act covers), disabilities (covering the ADA), etc.

I don't believe it would be found discriminatory to a protected class in most states (a lot of states add political affiliation, etc).

(this is just an example, and one i'm sure the IRS would have fun with :P)

Re: Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech companies

#50

Post by ironjunkie »

acchow wrote: post #40
throwaway426079 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if it is, it's just a few pennies per day.

No, if your employer is giving you $10k worth of meals (their cost to produce them) and charging you $100 for it, you are taxable on the $9,900 benefit.

I don't think it works like that.

Do employees today get taxed on the value of the free food ? Why would that be different if it costs 1$ , and how do you define the value of the free food anyways ?

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