How work kills us • Hacker News Board

Re: How work kills us

#41

Post by mrweasel » Wed, Jul 25, 2018, 12:24 PM UTC

mapcars wrote: post #32

some_account wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We choose to spend our time working? Only because there is no other reasonable option.

You can chose to not have a job. There are plenty of people like this. Yes, they don't have same amount of money and conveniences, but hey hey, this is your life and you only have one. If you see yourself being fulfilled by doing something else - no one can stop you.

There's a point to that. It sort of depends on the country, the US is pretty good about having people live like it pleases them, but others are not. In Scandinavia I don't really see any good way of avoid some kind of job. There a some expenses that aren't necessarily tied to any particular living standard.

What really surprises me is that politicians (Danish in my cases), refuse to discus the idea of reducing the length of the average work week (only one party suggested it, and was laughed of a being unrealistic). You could do a lot of good moving from a 37 hour work week to 30, but no, it's dismissed with no further debate. I really think that should be the discussion: How much do we need to work. Having it being black and white, job/no-job debate isn't particularly helpful.

I know that some would argue that people can just "choose" to work less, but that's rarely an option. Very few industries allow you to choose how much you work. In terms of compensation I could be happy, financially, working only 75% of my current hours, while receiving an similar reduction in pay, but that's not something most companies find attractive.

Re: How work kills us

#42

Post by pc86 » Wed, Jul 25, 2018, 12:28 PM UTC

ryanmercer wrote: post #25

mrweasel wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know why a personal bankruptcy prevents you from being hired? That seems very weird, it should be completely separate from your work and can't in anyway harm your employer.

In the case of that company, they worked with finances and it makes me a 'risk'. Apparently exercising protection that dates back to antiquity makes you undesirable. My bankruptcy also prevents me from ever having a security clearance again as I'm considered a security risk (blackmail, my mom worked at DoD before she had to retire via disability and one of her co-workers got fired when her debt shot up post divorce a…

> Apparently exercising protection that dates back to antiquity makes you undesirable.

I mean it's easy to categorize it this way but I think you're ignoring the actual risks for the company. Yes, bankruptcy is a completely legal and typically very useful legal mechanism for restructuring. There's nothing ethically or morally wrong with bankruptcy or even having multiple ones in your history depending on the circumstances.

But more often than not, it shows an inability to manage ones finances and staying within a reasonable band of spending. With few exceptions, bankruptcies are typically avoidable. To quote the word risk in the manner you did diminishes the real fact that you had a finance job and had recently shown that you unable to control your personal finances.

With the litigious nature of the US, especially within the confines of employment law, it's safer for a company in that sector to outright ban employees with major financial issues than to investigate the root causes and make case-by-case judgments on whether a given bankruptcy was "okay."

> My bankruptcy also prevents me from ever having a security clearance again as I'm considered a security risk (blackmail...

This is an accurate and very reasonable concern. It's the whole reason why applicants for every sensitive job from local part-time police officer to CIA agent have their personal finances investigated. If someone has 1.5x their yearly salary in high interest debt it's going to be much easier for a malicious actor to control them.

Re: How work kills us

#43

Post by the_gastropod » Wed, Jul 25, 2018, 12:28 PM UTC

ryanmercer wrote: post #15

>Second, employers affect the stress-inducing conditions of work: work-family conflict, long work hours, absence of control over one’s work environment, and economic insecurity. Stress makes people sick both directly and by inducing unhealthy individual behaviours such as smoking, drinking, and overeating. Not just stress, I simply hate my job. I'm stuck here, for 12 years now. "so get another job Ryan" bahahahaha yo…

Yikes. Sounds like you’re having a rough time. I have a book recommendation re: your financial stress. It’s called Early Retirement Extreme, and it’s written by a man who earned about what you do, and retired in under a decade by living frugally. It’s got some pretty great tips and examples of living within your means. It is pretty intense, but it sounds like your stress level is too. “Buying” yourself at least a few months of living expenses by living differently may ease some of that stress.

Good luck, man.

Re: How work kills us

#44

Post by posting2fast » Wed, Jul 25, 2018, 12:29 PM UTC

imgabe wrote: post #11

noja wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great secret. Thanks. Please RTFA. Also most people do not choose to do jobs, they have to do jobs.

Perpetuating a victim mentality helps no one.

> And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?

For me the correct answer is "neither, and now let's talk about why someone would ask that".

Re: How work kills us

#45

Post by cjohansson » Wed, Jul 25, 2018, 12:42 PM UTC

maxerickson wrote: post #27

cjohansson wrote: post #6

Being unemployed might kill us even more. I'm not sure I understand the argument here. In Finnish there is a idiom_ "People have died at home as well" that captures this idea that doing stuff away from home is not necessary less safe than being at home - you can die at home as well.

The argument is that companies do arbitrary things that are both harmful to the health of employees and also harmful to the profitability of the companies. So the idea is that companies (and society) can actually make more money by doing things that are less impactful on employee health and that they should do them.

That sounds like a good argument that nobody would disagree with but by the end of the day I think that being unemployed is probably worse to your health than having a work "that kills you"

Re: How work kills us

#46

Post by Broken_Hippo » Wed, Jul 25, 2018, 12:43 PM UTC

mrweasel wrote: post #19

ryanmercer wrote: post #15

>Second, employers affect the stress-inducing conditions of work: work-family conflict, long work hours, absence of control over one’s work environment, and economic insecurity. Stress makes people sick both directly and by inducing unhealthy individual behaviours such as smoking, drinking, and overeating. Not just stress, I simply hate my job. I'm stuck here, for 12 years now. "so get another job Ryan" bahahahaha yo…

Do you know why a personal bankruptcy prevents you from being hired? That seems very weird, it should be completely separate from your work and can't in anyway harm your employer.

They give all sorts of reasons. I worked for a gas station that did credit checks on low-level employees. They said that if a person had bad credit, they were more likely to steal from work. For some folks that work in finance, they require the employee to be bonded by an insurance company. Unfortunately, bankruptcy means they won't do that, and I'm guessing bad credit does as well. The reason for the bankruptcy doesn't matter, which is rather unfortunate since many folks have had bad luck between the housing market bust and medical expenses.

Oddly enough, I later worked at a pharmacy chain for many years. They didn't care about your finances. For front store cashiers, there were no checks. Manager and above got criminal background checks and a single drug test, either when hired or when promoted. Pharmacy employees were the same.

Re: How work kills us

#47

Post by ishtu » Wed, Jul 25, 2018, 12:48 PM UTC

shodan666 wrote: post #34

cjohansson wrote: post #6

Being unemployed might kill us even more. I'm not sure I understand the argument here. In Finnish there is a idiom_ "People have died at home as well" that captures this idea that doing stuff away from home is not necessary less safe than being at home - you can die at home as well.

Just vote for smarter politicians. If you are out of job: - The goverment should pay your health insurance, or it should be free. If you are in job: - You employer should pay your healh insurance (for GOVERMENT not for private indistry). The rate should be fixed or as fixed percentage of your income - the same no matter if you have any illness or not. This system works in Europe flawlessly. 3 pillars of socialism: -…

Point of government is not to give but, you know, to govern.

In communist countries millions of people were killed, so you probably should pick better examples.

Re: How work kills us

#48

Post by falcolas » Wed, Jul 25, 2018, 12:51 PM UTC

pc86 wrote: post #42

ryanmercer wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the case of that company, they worked with finances and it makes me a 'risk'. Apparently exercising protection that dates back to antiquity makes you undesirable. My bankruptcy also prevents me from ever having a security clearance again as I'm considered a security risk (blackmail, my mom worked at DoD before she had to retire via disability and one of her co-workers got fired when her debt shot up post divorce a…

> Apparently exercising protection that dates back to antiquity makes you undesirable. I mean it's easy to categorize it this way but I think you're ignoring the actual risks for the company. Yes, bankruptcy is a completely legal and typically very useful legal mechanism for restructuring. There's nothing ethically or morally wrong with bankruptcy or even having multiple ones in your history depending on the circumst…

> it shows an inability to manage ones finances and staying within a reasonable band of spending

In a world^w country where being sick can put you in complete and utter financial ruin, or where buying a house you can make payments on but whose value drops precipitously resulting in a seizure of the house, I call bullshit.

There's many, many reasons in our world today that you might need to declare bankruptcy, and being unable to manage your finances is only one.

Re: How work kills us

#49

Post by ryanmercer » Wed, Jul 25, 2018, 12:55 PM UTC

startupfounder wrote: post #40

ryanmercer wrote: post #15

>Second, employers affect the stress-inducing conditions of work: work-family conflict, long work hours, absence of control over one’s work environment, and economic insecurity. Stress makes people sick both directly and by inducing unhealthy individual behaviours such as smoking, drinking, and overeating. Not just stress, I simply hate my job. I'm stuck here, for 12 years now. "so get another job Ryan" bahahahaha yo…

If you ever need anyone to talk to text HOME to 741741 from anywhere in the United States, anytime for free.[0] There may be many reasons why some employers don't hire you, but don't forget that there are many reasons why they will hire you . Rejection doesn't mean that you are not a great person, it means that you, the company and the role might not be a good fit for each other. And that is OK. It's more than OK bec…

I'm not suicidal, but thanks.

Re: How work kills us

#50

Post by ryanmercer » Wed, Jul 25, 2018, 1:01 PM UTC

pc86 wrote: post #42

ryanmercer wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the case of that company, they worked with finances and it makes me a 'risk'. Apparently exercising protection that dates back to antiquity makes you undesirable. My bankruptcy also prevents me from ever having a security clearance again as I'm considered a security risk (blackmail, my mom worked at DoD before she had to retire via disability and one of her co-workers got fired when her debt shot up post divorce a…

> Apparently exercising protection that dates back to antiquity makes you undesirable. I mean it's easy to categorize it this way but I think you're ignoring the actual risks for the company. Yes, bankruptcy is a completely legal and typically very useful legal mechanism for restructuring. There's nothing ethically or morally wrong with bankruptcy or even having multiple ones in your history depending on the circumst…

>But more often than not, it shows an inability to manage ones finances and staying within a reasonable band of spending

You know what home economics taught me in high school? How to sew a tennis racket cover and how to make a beaded lizard keychain/zipper pull.

You know what it didn't teach? Balancing a check book, taxes, 19%+ interest rates on credit, emergency fund savings, how to deal with sudden unemployment, how to deal with sudden unexpected medical expenses.

I was paying my debts monthly, barely, that wasn't good enough for one of the lenders and they sued me in small claims. I never got the summons (apparently quite common) and they were awarded default judgement of 35% of my gross income and had my waged garnished which forced me to file.