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A new digital divide: Young people who can’t use keyboards

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Re: A new digital divide: Young people who can’t use keyboards

#41
post #9

Do your children a favor and get them a "real" computer with keyboard and mouse, instead of a tablet. I've found it helps with several things. For one, I've seen children accustomed to using touch interfaces blurring the line between physical and virtual, i.e swiping at physical objects like books, photos, even walls. I've not seen this behavior with those used to non touch interfaces. Also, learning to use a keyboar…

Chromebooks are a good device that is inexpensive, has keyboard, and many can run Android app.

Re: A new digital divide: Young people who can’t use keyboards

#42
"However, much of this does not align with the knowledge necessary to work in their future jobs."

This is not a problem. If they're not smart enough to realize they are deficient in necessary skills for future personal prosperity then I probably don't want to hire them for my company anyway. And if for some reason I do, then they better damned well learn how to type in a hurry. It's not the most difficult skill.

Do you know where the real problem is with the damned smart phones and not knowing how to type and do your job? Managers. We've got a world full of people supposed to be managing and instead they're spending their time texting unintelligible and incomplete crap to their employees while they gallivant around.

WTF happened to actually working?!

Re: A new digital divide: Young people who can’t use keyboards

#43
post #2

This is similar to the stereotype of: young people are good with computers. Browsing Instagram is not the same as creating value through programming and complex problem solving.

Related: http://www.coding2learn.org/blog/2013/07/29/kids-cant-use-co...

Re: A new digital divide: Young people who can’t use keyboards

#44
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on the age of the child. A toddler who is still exploring the world is one thing. A 14 year old who swipes at a book is a problem. (I don't know the age of the children from these anecdotes.) On the other hand, a toddler who explores the world as if it is a touch screen has been given way too much time on a touch screen. So there is definitely a problem there.

I have swiped on books several times now. Just a temporary lapse, I laugh about it and a few years later it may happen again.

When watching movies in the theatre, I catch myself jogging the cursor to see how much time is left.

How I do this without a trackpad and without moving, I don't know. I only notice when it doesn't work.

Re: A new digital divide: Young people who can’t use keyboards

#45
It's worth bearing in mind that the source is Japanese. All input methods for the Japanese language are a compromise. Inputting kanji on a physical keyboard is nowhere near as fluid as inputting Latin characters - you're constantly toggling between inputting kana and selecting the kanji options presented by the IME.

The prediction and correction technologies of smartphone keyboards are a very good match for kanji and hànzì input. As a second-language user of Chinese, I find it considerably faster and easier to input hànzì on a smartphone than with a physical keyboard. The context switching between inputting pīnyīn and selecting hànzì is much less expensive when the hànzì are presented directly above the on-screen keyboard. The prediction and correction algorithms seem to be far more intelligent on mobile, which largely compensates for the slower and more error-prone tactile experience.

It is my understanding that most young Japanese people prefer the flick input method, which is a refinement of the old keitai input method used on featurephones with numeric keypads; they are often startlingly quick at using this method, but it poses a far higher switching cost when moving to a QWERTY-derived physical keyboard. I find it entirely plausible that the flick method could simply be inherently superior.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8V-za9LT_30

Re: A new digital divide: Young people who can’t use keyboards

#46
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on the age of the child. A toddler who is still exploring the world is one thing. A 14 year old who swipes at a book is a problem. (I don't know the age of the children from these anecdotes.) On the other hand, a toddler who explores the world as if it is a touch screen has been given way too much time on a touch screen. So there is definitely a problem there.

> On the other hand, a toddler who explores the world as if it is a touch screen has been given way too much time on a touch screen. So there is definitely a problem there. You are making quite an assumption here. People of many centuries ago would also say that we raise our kids in a wrong way, because we don't teach them how to survive in the wild or how to work a potato field.

A computer is a machine of profound alienation from the actual ability to create and the ability to use, unlike anything someone who survives in the wild or farms would do. Many people will die having used computers for 10 hours a day but not being able to really act with computers and create with computers. This is unacceptable.

Re: A new digital divide: Young people who can’t use keyboards

#47

>Given that they can write and submit their school reports with smartphones Would students really do this? I couldn't imagine trying to write an entire essay or a lab report on a smartphone. Maybe Japanese schools don't have to turn in longer things like that?

As someone who recently worked in education... yes. Anecdotally, I tended to see it at the community-college level with students who owned a large-screen phone and didn't own a computer.

I don't think anyone is writing whole research papers or serious lab reports on phones. A two-page reading response is totally doable. Something with footnotes or equations, not so much.

Re: A new digital divide: Young people who can’t use keyboards

#48
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've seen children accustomed to using touch interfaces blurring the line between physical and virtual, i.e swiping at physical objects like books, photos, even walls. I've not seen this behavior with those used to non touch interfaces. Why do you think this is a bad think? This is how kids learn how the world works, by trying the same thing in different contexts, like how small children put everything in their mou…

It depends on the age of the child. A toddler who is still exploring the world is one thing. A 14 year old who swipes at a book is a problem. (I don't know the age of the children from these anecdotes.) On the other hand, a toddler who explores the world as if it is a touch screen has been given way too much time on a touch screen. So there is definitely a problem there.

I highly doubt you'll find a 14 year old who swipes at a book... kids very quickly learn context and rules of physics. It's much harder when some screens are touch screens and some are not, however, but I see adults trying to swipe non-touch screens all the time (mall displays, ads, iMacs etc.)

Re: A new digital divide: Young people who can’t use keyboards

#49

When I look at computer interfaces, I'm drawn back to the (probably mythical) story of the QWERTY keyboard, that it was designed to slow us down because our brains are faster than the mechanism of the typewriter. The modern GUI could be interpreted in that way too: Forcing us to direct the computer through a series of painfully discrete steps, to camouflage the fact that it can't interpret natural language. I've seen…

QWERTY was invented to move letters that were often close to each other in words to be further apart on the keyboard so as to prevent jams when two keys were pressed at once on a typewriter.

Re: A new digital divide: Young people who can’t use keyboards

#50
post #27
post #9

Do your children a favor and get them a "real" computer with keyboard and mouse, instead of a tablet. I've found it helps with several things. For one, I've seen children accustomed to using touch interfaces blurring the line between physical and virtual, i.e swiping at physical objects like books, photos, even walls. I've not seen this behavior with those used to non touch interfaces. Also, learning to use a keyboar…

Even more important is the nature of PCs vs mobile devices. The mobile platform is designed to commoditize the user and create a stark division between users on one side and content and software creators on the other. You can't easily create anything of any substance on a mobile device and the ecosystem discourages it by e.g. treating user data as unimportant. PCs were designed to be devices for people to create thin…

PCs were designed to be devices for people to create things.

I think you have an idealized view of how most people use PCs. Even during the first era of PCs in the 80s, most kids used them for playing games.

By the mid 90s, it was all about games and “multimedia” on CDs.

Then Facebook and social media games.

The geeks that looked forward to InCider, Nybble, and whatever the offshoot computer mag from 3-2-1 Contact were and typed BASIC programs in were the minority.

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