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Australia's new e-health platform crashes as people rush to opt-out

zdnet.com

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Re: Australia's new e-health platform crashes as people rush to opt-out

#41

Post by zinckiwi »

bigiain wrote: post #23
jpmoral wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Accenture, AFAIK.

Accenture - with Oracle and Orion Health - according to this: https://www.itnews.com.au/news/my-health-record-replatformin... Hilariously, they've already let on they're not going to renew the Accenture deal - which no doubt will _highly_ motivate them to provide exemplary support and security over the next two years: "The Australian Digital Health Agency has begun talks to replatform the My Health Record system ahea…

Wow. What do they expect the take-up rate to be with that kind of vote of no confidence from the people who commissioned it in the first place?

Re: Australia's new e-health platform crashes as people rush to opt-out

#42

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

Avamander wrote: post #37
lbriner wrote: post #30

There are problems with paper-based systems but they don't affect everyone to the same extent: * I visit another doctor when on holiday - they don't have my records * Certain treatments need the approval of my home doctor, it talkes longer than it should * Harder to collate statistics that are supposed to show the state of the nation's health But there are problems with an electronic system: * A single point of attac…

* A single point of attack Totally the same with your data in that one primary doctor's office or whatever * No way to assure people it is ultimately secure, because it can never be Totally same with your paper records, someone could walk in and steal your data, imagine that. * Creeping requirements mean that a few years later, the government might change what they can use it for. Just like paper records, you can't s…

I believe you’ve misunderstood the concept of single point of attack.

This means single point of attsck for everyone with an ehealth record.

With paper records, or in-house digital records, a hacker / thief, or malicious government, or what have you, has to compromise many systems.

The same applies to your paper record comment.

Re: Australia's new e-health platform crashes as people rush to opt-out

#43

Post by tgb »

Avamander wrote: post #37
lbriner wrote: post #30

There are problems with paper-based systems but they don't affect everyone to the same extent: * I visit another doctor when on holiday - they don't have my records * Certain treatments need the approval of my home doctor, it talkes longer than it should * Harder to collate statistics that are supposed to show the state of the nation's health But there are problems with an electronic system: * A single point of attac…

* A single point of attack Totally the same with your data in that one primary doctor's office or whatever * No way to assure people it is ultimately secure, because it can never be Totally same with your paper records, someone could walk in and steal your data, imagine that. * Creeping requirements mean that a few years later, the government might change what they can use it for. Just like paper records, you can't s…

Electronic records have a single point of attack for the entire country's data versus a breach at your local hospital. Makes beaches much worse while also greatly incentivizing the breach.

Re: Australia's new e-health platform crashes as people rush to opt-out

#44

Post by pjc50 »

Avamander wrote: post #37
lbriner wrote: post #30

There are problems with paper-based systems but they don't affect everyone to the same extent: * I visit another doctor when on holiday - they don't have my records * Certain treatments need the approval of my home doctor, it talkes longer than it should * Harder to collate statistics that are supposed to show the state of the nation's health But there are problems with an electronic system: * A single point of attac…

* A single point of attack Totally the same with your data in that one primary doctor's office or whatever * No way to assure people it is ultimately secure, because it can never be Totally same with your paper records, someone could walk in and steal your data, imagine that. * Creeping requirements mean that a few years later, the government might change what they can use it for. Just like paper records, you can't s…

This is true "on paper", but in practice our whole industry is built on the fact that electronic records behave qualitively differently from paper records because they're so much easier to handle.

You can't steal everyone's paper records all at once in the way you can with electronic records, for example.

Re: Australia's new e-health platform crashes as people rush to opt-out

#45

Post by Spooky23 »

Avamander wrote: post #37
lbriner wrote: post #30

There are problems with paper-based systems but they don't affect everyone to the same extent: * I visit another doctor when on holiday - they don't have my records * Certain treatments need the approval of my home doctor, it talkes longer than it should * Harder to collate statistics that are supposed to show the state of the nation's health But there are problems with an electronic system: * A single point of attac…

* A single point of attack Totally the same with your data in that one primary doctor's office or whatever * No way to assure people it is ultimately secure, because it can never be Totally same with your paper records, someone could walk in and steal your data, imagine that. * Creeping requirements mean that a few years later, the government might change what they can use it for. Just like paper records, you can't s…

Paper records have a better scope. It isn’t economically justifiable to steal paper. Electronic records are easier to steal and cheap to sell, mine or otherwise utilize.

Re: Australia's new e-health platform crashes as people rush to opt-out

#46

Post by pjc50 »

dav43 wrote: post #10

As part of my work, I've had to read a fair amount of the legislation and reports coming out in this sector and also the "Consumer Data Rights" legislation (similar to the UK's open banking scheme. What I found was a massive difference in policy coming out from the same government but in two seperate streams of work. A) Consumer Data Right (legislation being built into Australia Privacy Act) focusing on banking, ener…

I'm trying to compare it to the UK system, with the NHS "spine" and the huge failed NPfIT: http://digitalhealthage.com/digital-health-lessons-npfit/ . But I don't really know enough detail.

Re: Australia's new e-health platform crashes as people rush to opt-out

#47

Post by gruez »

Avamander wrote: post #37
lbriner wrote: post #30

There are problems with paper-based systems but they don't affect everyone to the same extent: * I visit another doctor when on holiday - they don't have my records * Certain treatments need the approval of my home doctor, it talkes longer than it should * Harder to collate statistics that are supposed to show the state of the nation's health But there are problems with an electronic system: * A single point of attac…

* A single point of attack Totally the same with your data in that one primary doctor's office or whatever * No way to assure people it is ultimately secure, because it can never be Totally same with your paper records, someone could walk in and steal your data, imagine that. * Creeping requirements mean that a few years later, the government might change what they can use it for. Just like paper records, you can't s…

>Totally the same with your data in that one primary doctor's office or whatever

still, it's a huge target compared to thousands of doctor's offices

>Totally same with your paper records, someone could walk in and steal your data, imagine that.

nowhere near as scaleable compared to hacking a site with everyone's records

Re: Australia's new e-health platform crashes as people rush to opt-out

#48

Post by shoo »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #13
msamwald wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems overall okay if you accept the premises that A) A centralized health record system can do substantial good by improving effectiveness and transparency of healthcare processes, and enabling medical progress through data re-use. B) Doctors won't lift a finger to do extra work if they have no selfish incentive for doing so.

C) the database never gets hacked, or leaked, or otherwise exfiltrated

... or privatised and all the data used commercially

Re: Australia's new e-health platform crashes as people rush to opt-out

#49

Post by gruez »

dav43 wrote: post #40
auslander wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dunno, but I shuddered to find "...the creation of a new government agency - Service NSW - supported by the Salesforce Service Cloud. ..." https://www.salesforce.com/au/customer-success-stories/servi... I trust government with my private data, not Salesforce or any other corporation.

ASide note: they are using the google recaptca on the opt out site shows they have no idea about privacy for a government agency. So now google know everyone opting out I assume?

theoretically they can, because they're running javascript on the page. but in practice I doubt it, just like I doubt that scripts from googleapis.com aren't backdooring your websites.

Re: Australia's new e-health platform crashes as people rush to opt-out

#50

Post by auslander »

dav43 wrote: post #40
auslander wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dunno, but I shuddered to find "...the creation of a new government agency - Service NSW - supported by the Salesforce Service Cloud. ..." https://www.salesforce.com/au/customer-success-stories/servi... I trust government with my private data, not Salesforce or any other corporation.

ASide note: they are using the google recaptca on the opt out site shows they have no idea about privacy for a government agency. So now google know everyone opting out I assume?

Google knows everything, lol :) I'm actually afraid how much it knows, your searches, for once, tell it stuff you don't share with your wife. All your account's emails, drive files. Is your company uses Google? Is your kid's school uses Google? Have Android with location services on? Btw, in Android, you don't have option to restrict location data to an app while using the app, as you can in iOS.

I'm about to create extensive guide on un-Googling yourself and your family. Mainly use Apple ecosystem, they make money selling you phones and macbooks, not your data.

First thing is don't give Google any info to identify who is behind that browser, if you go to google.com directly. Use VPN to shuffle IPs, use only Private browsing windows (kills cookies), don't stay logged in to Google, don't use Chrome.

Second, is to block tracking network requests from most of the websites to Google, like (googletagmanager.com, googletagservices.com, google-analytics.com, cloudflare.com) by using adblocker (uBlock Origin).

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