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How Helsinki Arrived at the Future of Urban Travel First

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Re: How Helsinki Arrived at the Future of Urban Travel First

#41

Post by jampekka »

outime wrote: post #2

As a Helsinki resident (and Whim user) it’s important to point out that while the user base of Whim has grown quite a bit, it’s most likely due to the introductory price that won’t last forever. For 49 € you get public transport, public bike (first half an hour free), cheap taxi rides and perhaps slightly cheaper car renting, whereas to get public transport alone without this app is around 55 €. So I wouldn’t call it…

They are probably running at big loss. As per the contract, resellers have to pay the retail price 2.20€ per ticket. So they start running at a loss after around 22 tickets per month. And that's just for the public transportation.

The 55€/month is only for Helsinki area residents and subsidized from municipal taxes. Without the subsidy it's over 130€/month.

Re: How Helsinki Arrived at the Future of Urban Travel First

#42

Post by majewsky »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #18
Jommi wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah it's abit of a fluff piece, but compared to stuff that comes out in the US scene everyday it's nothing. Can't we just once be positive? The app works, there are no lies in the article. Maybe if people in Finland were a bit more optimistic there would be more successful companies

This is the part where I write some tone deaf response that is obviously based on the assumption that SillyValley(TM) is the center of the universe and suggest that European companies should pay their devs more. /s I generally agree with you. This is an obvious fluff piece but that's most articles around here. People just seem to turn a blind eye when it's a company from wherever they're from.

> SillyValley(TM)

It's actually "silly con valley" which is even more accurate.

Re: How Helsinki Arrived at the Future of Urban Travel First

#43

Post by alistairSH »

nmeofthestate wrote: post #23

"The cost of cars accounts for as much as 85 percent of personal transportation spending, according to Hietanen, even though the average car is used only 4 percent of the time." This figure is a bit silly - you don't drive your car while you're sleeping, or indeed when you're already where you want to be. Doesn't mean it's not a useful thing to own.

4% of 24 hours is about 58 minutes.

So, 6% of the 16 hours/day you're awake. 9% of the 11 hours/day you aren't sleeping or working.

Sure, owning a car is useful. But, private car ownership is highly inefficient.

Re: How Helsinki Arrived at the Future of Urban Travel First

#44

Post by ghaff »

alistairSH wrote: post #40
yurishimo wrote: post #28

The 499 euro price tag for the "all access" seems quite expensive from an American point of view. I can get a decent car with good gas mileage for about half that and outright buying a used car will save me a lot more in less than a year. Most people who would be tempted to go without owning a car in the US don't do much driving anyway, so they don't spend a lot on gas as is. While I think this could work in NYC, Sea…

That's about $580 US. The average monthly payment on a NEW car in the US is around $500 [0][1]. Add in parking (even "free" parking isn't), depreciation, gasoline, insurance, and registration fees and that's pretty darn close to $580. From my perspective, living the DC suburbs, I would love to have an all-access app for multi-mode transport. I own two cars (one for me, one for wife). I walk to work, so my car only ge…

Rent a car for the weekend? Though there's obviously some transaction overhead associated with doing that.

Re: How Helsinki Arrived at the Future of Urban Travel First

#45

Post by AnssiH »

jpatokal wrote: post #24

As a former Helsinkian, I'm rather surprised to see the label "future of urban travel" applied to a city that has banned all forms of Uber-style ride-sharing due to pressure from the taxi lobby.

Any source for ride-sharing ban by Helsinki?

AFAIK no such ban ever existed. The Finnish law does require commercial drivers to hold taxi permits, though, but that is not specific to Helsinki.

Re: How Helsinki Arrived at the Future of Urban Travel First

#46

Post by alistairSH »

ghaff wrote: post #44
alistairSH wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's about $580 US. The average monthly payment on a NEW car in the US is around $500 [0][1]. Add in parking (even "free" parking isn't), depreciation, gasoline, insurance, and registration fees and that's pretty darn close to $580. From my perspective, living the DC suburbs, I would love to have an all-access app for multi-mode transport. I own two cars (one for me, one for wife). I walk to work, so my car only ge…

Rent a car for the weekend? Though there's obviously some transaction overhead associated with doing that.

I've considered it. But, the transaction overhead isn't small. I'd need to reserve the car in advance, Lyft to the rental agency, etc. Currently, I can decide to go to the mountains on a whim Friday afternoon.

Re: How Helsinki Arrived at the Future of Urban Travel First

#47

Post by brylie »

mattlondon wrote: post #17

Its the availability that is the killer for these sorts of services, as one of the people interviewed in the article says. I don't see how these services can compare with a private car without totally saturating the neighborhood with lots of idle vehicles sitting around to cover the spikes in demand without suffering infuriating unavailability when you need to get somewhere. Its already annoying seeing all the dock-l…

You might be interested in a UX talk given by Apaar Tuli, lead designer of Whim, called The MaaSive Future of Transport:

https://interaction18.ixda.org/program/talk-the-maasive-futu...

Disclosure: I work at MaaS Global

Re: How Helsinki Arrived at the Future of Urban Travel First

#48

Post by sandworm101 »

m_mueller wrote: post #34
sandworm101 wrote: post #32

A great system for the young and able-bodied, those with no literal or metaphorical baggage. But try getting on the bus with a disabled child in a large wheelchair. Or try taking your bleeding dog to the vet in a cab. Or board a bus carrying a windsurfer. I want to go rock climbing this weekend. No bus or taxi will take me up a logging road. Must i walk from the nearest town? Because then i'll have to take time off w…

Wheelchair: Vote for better politicians who invest in accessible public transportation. E.g. in Switzerland and I suspect most of Skandinavia this is not a big deal. Rock climbing: That's when you rent a car [1]. Although again, Switzerland's trains, post buses and cablecars bring you there without any big issue, so if there's the political will there's also a way, as long as you don't want to go to a place that's to…

Lol. Rent a car? Have you ever seen a car rental agreement that would allow a rented car to be driven 10/20/30km up a logging road?

Do you know what it means to take an autistic child, or cancer patient, or dementia sufferer, on public transportation for more than a few minutes? Not everyone does well in groups or unfamiliar environments. Doctors regularly tell people with suppressed immune systems to avoid public transportation due to infection risk. Charities all over the world FLY these people in private PLANES because they know how difficult even private cars can be when you are ill.

My point is that there are a great many lifestyles and activities that either demand or are made vastly simpler by personal vehicles. Not including personal vehicles in a transportation plans pushes those people away.

Shameless plug for my favorite local charity: http://www.angelflight.ca/ Fyi, these flights walk on water in BC. Their callsign is given priority for everything. Fees are waived. 747s and fighter jets will be moved to make room for them.

Re: How Helsinki Arrived at the Future of Urban Travel First

#49

Post by ghaff »

alistairSH wrote: post #46
ghaff wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rent a car for the weekend? Though there's obviously some transaction overhead associated with doing that.

I've considered it. But, the transaction overhead isn't small. I'd need to reserve the car in advance, Lyft to the rental agency, etc. Currently, I can decide to go to the mountains on a whim Friday afternoon.

That makes perfect sense. It also highlights some of the reasons why, a lot of the time, people own items that they don't use frequently. e.g. you may only use a lawnmower 15 times a year but most people aren't going to rent one each time.

Re: How Helsinki Arrived at the Future of Urban Travel First

#50

Post by nikanj »

jampekka wrote: post #41
outime wrote: post #2

As a Helsinki resident (and Whim user) it’s important to point out that while the user base of Whim has grown quite a bit, it’s most likely due to the introductory price that won’t last forever. For 49 € you get public transport, public bike (first half an hour free), cheap taxi rides and perhaps slightly cheaper car renting, whereas to get public transport alone without this app is around 55 €. So I wouldn’t call it…

They are probably running at big loss. As per the contract, resellers have to pay the retail price 2.20€ per ticket. So they start running at a loss after around 22 tickets per month. And that's just for the public transportation. The 55€/month is only for Helsinki area residents and subsidized from municipal taxes. Without the subsidy it's over 130€/month.

It’s interesting how many areas of life are moving from tax-subsidized to VC subsidized. Not complaining, I’m happy to take their money.
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