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The Great Apple Keyboard Cover-Up

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Re: The Great Apple Keyboard Cover-Up

#41

Post by bsimpson »

saagarjha wrote: post #21
phil248 wrote: post #13

I'm sorry, but are people actually more concerned with the sound of the keyboard than the arrow keys? It took me a week to get used to the sound. Six months in and I still can't reliably hit the arrow keys. It's as if they're designed to be as difficult as possible.

Ooh, yes, I hate the new arrow keys. The inverted-T arrangement was great for positioning your fingers without looking down, since you could use the empty space to orient yourself.

I haven't used the new keyboard. Can't you still detect the arrow keys by feeling for the split between up/down?

Re: The Great Apple Keyboard Cover-Up

#42

Post by handbanana »

npunt wrote: post #29
handbanana wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They didn't really fix it though, did they?

That's literally the point of the article - the design was changed in a significant way to incorporate a fix to reduce dust, which is spelled out in the patent.

I fail to see how what they did is change “in a significant way”. It seems more of a bandaid to me. It almost signals an unwillingness to fundamentally change the keyboard design for the better

Re: The Great Apple Keyboard Cover-Up

#43

Post by npunt »

skygazer wrote: post #28
handbanana wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They didn't really fix it though, did they?

This [0] from this morning was interesting. Apparently AppleInsider has been monitoring a number of Genius Bar and authorized service centers for warranty repairs of 2014 thru 2017 laptops. It seems 2016 MBPs had the most keyboard issues, and the 2017 version brought the claims back down to (and below) 2014/15 levels. So, it might be reasonable to say they fixed it last year, in terms of prevalence of issues, althoug…

Anytime there's a new chassis launched you have to expect greater failure rates on the early parts, and the 2016 model was the first one with a new chassis, so I'm not sure the data they have tells the entire story.

It's likely there were manufacturing issues that were still being worked out throughout the 2016 cycle and that there were very minor tweaks made during that year's run to improve reliability. If that were the case, the issues would be weighted toward 2016 models manufactured early in the year, and we'd only be able to know if we compared return data to build date.

In my personal experience with a 2016 MBP, one of the issues with the keyboard was that when the system was under load for a significant amount of time, the resulting increase in temperature around the left side of the keyboard would cause keys to stick. The keys would unstick after temps decreased. This was an issue discussed by several people in forums. A manufacturing change to something like the application of thermal paste on the CPU/GPU might change that, without any change to the keyboard design itself.

Re: The Great Apple Keyboard Cover-Up

#44

Post by handbanana »

saagarjha wrote: post #26
handbanana wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They didn't really fix it though, did they?

That’s the question raised here: Apple has said that they’ve made the keyboard “quieter”. The jury’s out on whether that was codewords for fixing the issue.

I don’t dispute that. My point is they half-assed the fix

Re: The Great Apple Keyboard Cover-Up

#45

Post by keehun »

bsimpson wrote: post #41
saagarjha wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ooh, yes, I hate the new arrow keys. The inverted-T arrangement was great for positioning your fingers without looking down, since you could use the empty space to orient yourself.

I haven't used the new keyboard. Can't you still detect the arrow keys by feeling for the split between up/down?

It really is not the same. Also, the up/down being squished to half their normal height makes things more difficult. In other words, there is just a lot less room for error, now..

Re: The Great Apple Keyboard Cover-Up

#46

Post by handbanana »

skygazer wrote: post #28
handbanana wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They didn't really fix it though, did they?

This [0] from this morning was interesting. Apparently AppleInsider has been monitoring a number of Genius Bar and authorized service centers for warranty repairs of 2014 thru 2017 laptops. It seems 2016 MBPs had the most keyboard issues, and the 2017 version brought the claims back down to (and below) 2014/15 levels. So, it might be reasonable to say they fixed it last year, in terms of prevalence of issues, althoug…

I’d be interested to see a breakdown of reasons the keyboards failed for each model year.

And what percentage of the pre butterfly design were because of sand/dust etc. then contrast that to the butterfly design percentage. They could have merely improved reliability in another way(s) with the butterfly design.

Re: The Great Apple Keyboard Cover-Up

#47

Post by gnicholas »

wild_preference wrote: post #23
princekolt wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a service program to replace these keyboards for free. They are even refunding people who paid to get their keyboards fixed before the program launched. This is almost a non-issue at this point if you can use a replacement computer while they fix yours.

They don’t fix the keyboard. They only “reset” it which means you’ll have to bring it in again once it accumulates enough issues to make it worthwhile. My first key failed within one month. Eventually seven keys came off with ny fingers as I typed. “Non-issue” is comical word choice.

In my case, they are sending out to have the top case replaced. Can’t speak for others, but they’re not just kicking the can down the road.

The Apple genius also told me that the replacement part won’t be identical to the original keyboard. We’ll see if it’s the new 3rd generation butterfly or just a tweaked 2nd gen.

Re: The Great Apple Keyboard Cover-Up

#48

Post by skygazer »

basicplus2 wrote: post #38

This is a pretty sad day that sonething like this can be patented.. Anything wrapped in a cover can “prevent and/or alleviate contaminant ingress” Does any patent office in the world really think nobody has thought of this before?

The patent [0] does seem a bit more extensive than just wrap it in a membrane. It discusses using venting/gas pressure (from depressing the key) to expel debris, for instance.

[0] http://pdfaiw.uspto.gov/.aiw?PageNum=0&docid=20180068808&IDK...

Re: The Great Apple Keyboard Cover-Up

#49

Post by saagarjha »

keehun wrote: post #45
bsimpson wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't used the new keyboard. Can't you still detect the arrow keys by feeling for the split between up/down?

It really is not the same. Also, the up/down being squished to half their normal height makes things more difficult. In other words, there is just a lot less room for error, now..

The up/down arrow keys are sized as they were before. It's the left/right arrow keys that have grown to be twice their normal height.

Re: The Great Apple Keyboard Cover-Up

#50

Post by steve_adams_86 »

saagarjha wrote: post #35
iamshs wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arrow keys and Keys getting stuck are biggest problems with the MBP. First time I used the keyboard, I had trouble inputting password and had to start using an extension instead. Now I have trouble inputting the long char master password. And still can’t hit arrow keys reliably after six months with this thing.

Hopefully Touch ID fixes the issue with having to enter a long password?

I know it's not a huge deal but touch id is less secure than a good password, so it's not a complete solution. You also can't use touch id in all circumstances... It's actually quite inconsistent in that regard.
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