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The physics of baking good pizza

arxiv.org

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Re: The physics of baking good pizza

#41

Post by flukus »

toomanybeersies wrote: post #36
tigershark wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) Frozen pizza is awful 2) To properly bake a pizza you need 350/400 C 3) Normal electrical ovens arrive to 220/240 C and the pizza becomes dry and crunchy 4) If you put a frozen pizza in a cold oven it will always be burnt because by the time the inside is cooked the outside has become overcooked and burnt 5) Please don’t make me cry writing pizza misadventures :’(

I've actually had some really good frozen pizzas. The best ones I ever had were actually $4 frozen pizzas from the supermarket that were made in Italy. I'm not sure how they made a pizza in Italy and shipped it to NZ and managed to sell it for $4, but they were great, or at least the quattro fromaggio ones were. The ones with any frozen vegetables like mushrooms were sort of crap, the mushrooms went all watery. In my…

ALDI has some really good ones for $3AU too, the supreme ones (basically ham, cheese and capsicum if that counts as supreme) anyway.

I cook from frozen normally, but for a really "gourmet" frozen pizza experience defrost is completely and stick it under the grill. Wonderful grilled cheese on top and still a soft fluffy base underneath.

Re: The physics of baking good pizza

#42

Post by chaosbutters314 »

This paper is so oversimplified.

If you're actually curious in the physics of food, check out the journal of food engineering. We use much more complex physical models to simulate the physics of food.

Fun note, this is my job and it is pretty cool to really dig into the science behind cooking and then apply that to an industrial scale.

Re: The physics of baking good pizza

#44

Post by borkt »

tigershark wrote: post #18
numbol wrote: post #13

This post encouraged me to make account and leave a comment after couple years of read-only /sorry for bad english/ Long ago, in yearly middle-school time I am argue with friends about optimum(by combined simplicity and taste score) way to bake frozen pizza, and all about with electric heating oven VS microwave. After some time oven was chosen, but I thinked that made oven pre-heaten was waste of time and try to appr…

1) Frozen pizza is awful 2) To properly bake a pizza you need 350/400 C 3) Normal electrical ovens arrive to 220/240 C and the pizza becomes dry and crunchy 4) If you put a frozen pizza in a cold oven it will always be burnt because by the time the inside is cooked the outside has become overcooked and burnt 5) Please don’t make me cry writing pizza misadventures :’(

As a roccbox owner and someone who has made pizza from my earliest memories, I would say there are some tasty frozen pizzas. Totinos comes to mind, it is nothing like a neapolitan or even dominos pizza, but the way it cooks up turns it into a sweet-sauced cheesy cracker. You just can't think of it as traditional pizzs.

Re: The physics of baking good pizza

#45

Post by awinder »

bobbybroadcast wrote: post #33
makmanalp wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or a pizza steel which I've wanted to try forever: https://slice.seriouseats.com/2012/09/the-pizza-lab-the-baki... ... not a perfect neapolitan but looks good enough for me.

My wife and I just made 4 pizzas on this last night. It is great but the edges around the pizza were golden brown and not that bubbly crispy crust you get in pizzerias. I am convinced now more than ever that the dough is the critical procedural element we were getting wrong. She used a 1 hour dough where even the pizza steel recommends a 72 hour one. Needless to say, she has one in the proofer for Wednesday night.

I use the recipe from this book + the levain instructions — https://www.amazon.com/Flour-Water-Salt-Yeast-Fundamentals/d...

Highly recommend though I believe the author is located in the Pacific Northwest, and one thing I have found is nearly all recipes should have their hydration ratios adjusted to your local climate. Local humidity / seasons tend to have impacts on dough.

Re: The physics of baking good pizza

#46

Post by icantdrive55 »

Lazy man's pizza dough:

Two to four cups of bread flour.

1/2 cup wheat flour if you have it.

Teaspoon of sugar.

Teaspoon salt.

Tablespoon of yeast.

Mix the dry ingredients in a Cuisenart, or by hand in a bowl.

Add a few drizzles of olive oil.

Add couple of cups of 110 (where's the degree symbol on an iPad?) warm water.

Let the Cuisinart do the kneeding. Adjust the water. The dough should look like dough? Don't overthink it. I have found it practically impossible to break a Cuisenart. Yes--the little machine will be shaking. Mix a minute, or until you feel it looks like dough. (Cuisenarts do have a circuit breaker, but I've only triped it once. Don't want to push my luck. It's internal.)

Put the dough in a plastic bag, and drizzle more olive oil in the bad. (The oil keeps the dough from sticking).

Let it rise for an hour, and smack it down. After a few hours, it's ready.

I roll it out with a wine bottle.

I usually don't make pizza, but the dough is great for healthy Calzones.

Healthy Calzone recipe:

I raid the vegetable bin in the fridge. I sauté onions, carrots, Celery, and greens, etc. in a bit of olive oil. Frozen vegatables are great too

I add a handful of meat for flavor. A little cheese makes it taste better. Cheese makes everything taste better?

I dump the concoction on the dough, and wrap carefully.

It's nice to have parchment paper to work with. I'm so cheap, I thought about using an old paper bag, but Fahrenheit 451 was on, and a bell went off in my head.

Cook the concoction in a preheated 460 degree oven for 9 minutes. Keep a metal cup with water in the oven. It humidifies the oven, and the dough supposedly looks better?

Food for two days.

Re: The physics of baking good pizza

#47

Post by gry »

chaosbutters314 wrote: post #42

This paper is so oversimplified. If you're actually curious in the physics of food, check out the journal of food engineering. We use much more complex physical models to simulate the physics of food. Fun note, this is my job and it is pretty cool to really dig into the science behind cooking and then apply that to an industrial scale.

Related: I highly recommend the Cooking Issues podcast with Dave Arnold [http://heritageradionetwork.org/series/cooking-issues/].

Re: The physics of baking good pizza

#48

Post by sgc »

bobbybroadcast wrote: post #33
makmanalp wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or a pizza steel which I've wanted to try forever: https://slice.seriouseats.com/2012/09/the-pizza-lab-the-baki... ... not a perfect neapolitan but looks good enough for me.

My wife and I just made 4 pizzas on this last night. It is great but the edges around the pizza were golden brown and not that bubbly crispy crust you get in pizzerias. I am convinced now more than ever that the dough is the critical procedural element we were getting wrong. She used a 1 hour dough where even the pizza steel recommends a 72 hour one. Needless to say, she has one in the proofer for Wednesday night.

Having worked in Italian Pizzerias (in Italy), 2 days minimum for a decent crust, but the cheap places don't all do that.

Re: The physics of baking good pizza

#49

Post by johnnyletrois »

chrissnell wrote: post #7
Tomte wrote: post #5

I relented and bought a pizza steel. Best thing ever. And not as over the top as a dedicated wood-fired oven (single use: pizza) for garden or balcony. It's my 80% solution.

My plan is to get a pizza steel and do the cooking in my Big Green Egg. I can get the egg up to at least 700 F and I should be able to cook the pizza in a few minutes at that temp. The kamado ceramic body of the BGE will retain heat well and cook from both top and bottom. The oak wood should add nice flavor, too.

I baked three pies in my BGE last night. Delicious. Pizza stone on grate on plate setter and bake 2.5 minutes at 650-700, rotate 180 degrees, and another 2-3 minutes. Delicious. Easy shortcut is to use Trader Joe's crust.

Re: The physics of baking good pizza

#50

Post by sgc »

Jedd wrote: post #19
Jupe wrote: post #14

My Pizza Rules (not that anyone asked, but...) 1. Don't "Moat" your pizza. The barren expanse of dried sauce and over-sized crust is the classic sign of "moating" the pizza. Spread the majority of the toppings as close to the edge as you'd like your crust to be, and reduce the amount of toppings (cheese, sauce, etc.) at the center. As the pizza cooks, the crust will rise, and the toppings will naturally flow to the c…

I think there's probably some cultural assumptions in your list. I tend to assume Neapolitan style when talking about pizza, but I know this is not the default for most people. That is - 450C (at least), cooking time under 90s, thin / crisp crust, with minimal toppings. In AU this is not hard to find, but there certainly are plenty of chain pizza restaurants that go for the heavy, piled-on, thick crust, 10 minutes to…

They also import Manitoba flour in Italy to make pizza. High gluten is a must or it will just fall apart if it is the right thickness / cooked correctly. 90 seconds is faster than usual, but yes it is cooked fast. Neapolitan in Italy means thicker crust than other regions, but you are probably right that is what you are eating. Outside of Italy I am not sure many people would be able to recognize the difference.
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