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Instead of ‘finding your passion,’ try developing it, Stanford scholars say

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Re: Instead of ‘finding your passion,’ try developing it, Stanford scholars say

#41
post #18

I explore passion because I think there are things more "economical" to be passionate about. I am now a software developer. When I was in high-school I didn't get the point of computers beyond playing pc games all summer long. I just heard once in a while "if you pick cumputers major you will have a descent job". I was a painter in high-school. I wanted to create amazing and realistic paintings to wow everyone. And I…

I've been programming as an adult for something like, 15 years, but I've always had a bit of a difficult balance with formalism and creativity (as well as personal opinion / preference). Have MSc in CS. But I've been hacking away at computers since since I was very young.

I lost something of myself through all my education and in work - namely - be creative. If you grow into that top .1% or whatever, everything becomes 'so serious' in maintaining that position because you effectively become an authority figure in it.

HN recently introduced me to INTERCAL and something just clicked where I was like, this can all be completely ridiculous, AND well done??? It was like all the rules of consistency, analysis relaxed, heavily. I don't have to have a mind that is perfectly structured for all things. I can balance a perspective that is diametrically opposite to all the rules and something can still be built really well.

There's something so serious about programming that has often kept me a neurotic mess about it, always keeping my sense of humor about it cleanly compartmentalized away from my code. I started working on a PhD and the pressure to make everything perfect got to me. I work as a software developer and the pressure to plan code everyone can learn and grow from turned me into an asshole!

There's always plenty of learning to be done but there's not always going to be someone whose going to be able to tell you how to get out of a 'passion rut' for you, and I'd imagine over a lifetime of passion you'd wind up experiencing plateus like that with a fair amount of frequency. Whether you find your passion early or late, maintaining interest for all that time you have can be really tough. It's something people sometimes have to help one another with and sometimes it is something one has to work hard for independently as well.

I really agree with the stress free aspect. My first solution to reduce stress was 'go really slow', tortoise versus the hare mentality. I found myself in a sort of social competition puzzle that wasn't fun and was draining me all of my brain resources automatically, as one side effect. Funny that INTERCAL is that bit of radical novelty dijkstra was talking about, for me. It's just all done the opposite, but for me - it's exactly what my mind and social life turn into when code has to be 'perfect'.

> Maybe is because "just hangout with someone" is not clearly defined. What is the point? what do we want to talk about? I don't socialize a lot outside of work.

I don't socialize much myself either, because sometimes it seems like there is supposed to be a point, but - nitpicking over that mentality in the way one might nitpick over code ... I think that's the wrong way to view relationships.

Re: Instead of ‘finding your passion,’ try developing it, Stanford scholars say

#42

It makes for a nice aspirational graduation speech, but as many PhDs will attest passion doesn’t matter much if society doesn’t value your passion and you need to put food on the table.

True. At least passion should be complemented with a good exit plan.

That's why I studied Computer Science instead of 'Game Design' in college. I've been designing and making games for most of my life in some form or another (currently board and card games, previously video games) in my spare time, and spent some time in the video game industry, but I got burned out after 4 years and then was able to get a much higher paying job by going back to the corporate world.

The coding problems I solve while coding feels similar (wrestling file formats and external frameworks, optimizing bottlenecks, automating routine processes, recording various data about users and what they do in the system, and debugging hairy multithreaded procedures exists in both industries), and overtime is much less common.

But even though what I work on now gets used by major corporations and assist hundreds of thousands of people, it's hard for me to feel passionate about complex Insurance Policy objects or setting up phone systems so people can get annoyed when a robotic voice is programmed to ignore them as they jab the 0 key or say "customer service" sixteen times because they want to skip the automated process and talk to a human.

And corporate development has its own share of problems, things that are completely out of your control often times, because the directives come down from on high.

And despite there being hundreds of different industries I could work for as a software developer, I imagine I'll still encounter a lot of the same frustrations, just with the veneer of a new problem domain. Past experience shows that learning that new problem domain will carry me and keep me interested in the job for the first year, but after that starts to fade. I suppose I could hop from job to job, but I'm getting older and getting more tied down (i.e. I just bought a house, planning a wedding right now, etc.)

So what do you do when you get burned out by your exit plan?

Re: Instead of ‘finding your passion,’ try developing it, Stanford scholars say

#43
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't help but wonder if a planned economy would be better, someone who said "you're good enough, pursue this we will support you economically", or said "sorry you didn't make the cut you'll have to develop a passion for something else".

Because then someone or group of someone has a bais towards what are good passions and what are bad passions. Investors have a hard enough time guessing which ideas will work out, why would people with no skin in the game know any better?

But there is already a group of people with a bias holding the purse strings. Their bias is towards profitability in every single undertaking they support. If they were replaced with planners - and let's leave aside the question of whether this is practically achievable - we could dispense with that bias. The planners would have their own biases, of course, but it is not clear to me that their biases are worse than the current ones. I suspect they might be better.

You seem to be using the phrase "no skin in the game" to mean "no exposure to financial risk". I would argue for a more expansive definition. A planner, as a member of society, does have skin in the game, as they have in interest in the overall proper functioning of that society and the happiness of its members.

And by "work out" you seem to mean "generate a desired level of financial return". I'm sure you can see how once you free yourself from that definition, the range of things it might seem worthwhile taking a punt on grows much larger. If Johnny wants to spend his life building pasta looms for preparing elaborate lasagnes, the potential upside is probably not very apparent, but the downside is small too and can be justified as an investment in making the society a more interesting place where people can pursue their niche interests.

Re: Instead of ‘finding your passion,’ try developing it, Stanford scholars say

#44
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't help but wonder if a planned economy would be better, someone who said "you're good enough, pursue this we will support you economically", or said "sorry you didn't make the cut you'll have to develop a passion for something else".

Isn’t this how seeking investment works?

Not at all, because you have to justify the financial upside of your venture and then the investors decide if the return they expect fits within the parameters they have already agreed on for managing their portfolio.

It is more akin to applying for a grant or residency as an artist or for research funding as a scientist. You still have to argue why there is some upside to the work you intend to undertake, but the upside may not be in the form of profit for the investor.

Re: Instead of ‘finding your passion,’ try developing it, Stanford scholars say

#45
post #3

It makes for a nice aspirational graduation speech, but as many PhDs will attest passion doesn’t matter much if society doesn’t value your passion and you need to put food on the table.

Yup. And see the terrible situations is all and every vocational and artistic occupations. Competition is so fierce that almost everyone has to work basically for free and sustain themselves by doing menial job on the side. You could argue that most of them would be better finding a life occupation they're at least merely interested in instead, but providing decent living, and keeping their passion as a hobby. (I've…

In my highly subjective view artists are expecting to get paid for something that most of us have the capability to participate in with reasonable results given a similar investment of effort; in other words, most artists differ from the general population not in artistic aptitude, but rather in the desire to be an artist. I would love to sit around and play with ideas for a living, but it doesn't pay the bills in my occupation.

Re: Instead of ‘finding your passion,’ try developing it, Stanford scholars say

#46

I've found that usually when people say they're "passionate" about something, what they're really saying is that they have a deep yearning for the high social status they would attain if they were great at or well-known for that thing. Also, that they believe their status is higher because they're passionate about that thing, and they wanted to remind you of that. Half the time it's something they don't even devote v…

> I've found that usually when people say they're "passionate" about something, what they're really saying is that they have a deep yearning for the high social status they would attain if they were great at or well-known for that thing.

This is you projecting your own motivations onto others.

Re: Instead of ‘finding your passion,’ try developing it, Stanford scholars say

#47
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't seem to be on sale for kindle anymore? When I go to the Amazon US it costs $10.52. Do you have a direct link?

Yup, still showing for sale on Kindle here for $2.22 US, also tried visiting via a US VPN: https://www.amazon.com/Good-They-Cant-Ignore-You-ebook/dp/B0... But I'm in Australia, so it's possible it's an Australia-only sale, even though I'm looking on the US site. Edit: Also, here's the direct Amazon Australia link: https://www.amazon.com.au/Good-They-Cant-Ignore-You-ebook/dp...

For statistic purpose, I have it at 8.8$ on .com from France (but in a french Caribbean island, so sometimes IP locations are messed up)

Re: Instead of ‘finding your passion,’ try developing it, Stanford scholars say

#48
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't help but wonder if a planned economy would be better, someone who said "you're good enough, pursue this we will support you economically", or said "sorry you didn't make the cut you'll have to develop a passion for something else".

This might start well, but what happens when the environment changes? Maybe that musicians music doesn't pan out, maybe we thought bread would be a more popular export so we have too many bakers. Are we going to jerk people around to follow the command economy, or are we going to simply get outcompeted by capitalism in the global market place?

What exactly do you mean by "outcompeted" here?

Re: Instead of ‘finding your passion,’ try developing it, Stanford scholars say

#49

I've found that usually when people say they're "passionate" about something, what they're really saying is that they have a deep yearning for the high social status they would attain if they were great at or well-known for that thing. Also, that they believe their status is higher because they're passionate about that thing, and they wanted to remind you of that. Half the time it's something they don't even devote v…

Most everyone would agree that it's not really a passion if you don't devote much time to it.

Re: Instead of ‘finding your passion,’ try developing it, Stanford scholars say

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True. At least passion should be complemented with a good exit plan.

That's why I studied Computer Science instead of 'Game Design' in college. I've been designing and making games for most of my life in some form or another (currently board and card games, previously video games) in my spare time, and spent some time in the video game industry, but I got burned out after 4 years and then was able to get a much higher paying job by going back to the corporate world. The coding problem…

You may want to consider contract work, where you can work on projects in multiple industries. If you get bored with a project, you just need to ride it out for a few months until something fresh comes along. Gaps between work are a great time to recharge. Of course, contracting comes with downsides like having to deal with crappy expensive health insurance, assuming you are in the US.
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