FWIW I am an MIT graduate who has lived and worked in research in the USA and France
Can France Create Its Own MIT?
41–50 of 51 posts
Re: Can France Create Its Own MIT?
#42Re: Can France Create Its Own MIT?
#43It can't, it shouldn't and it definitely does not have to. France is doing just fine in terms of research in many fields. Those that would like France to produce an 'MIT' would also like Europe to produce the next Facebook and neither is going to happen. But that doesn't mean things are bad, they're just different and no less valuable.
Out of curiosity, why is this true? Why does it seem like so many relevant tech companies are American, yet I see tons of talented European developers and conferences all the time? Are Euro nations just hostile to startups in a way the US isn't?
The ones that are relevant to you.
To me all but very few of the relevant tech companies are irrelevant, and the miracle of Silicon Valley has not been replicated inside the USA either. So the reason those companies are American is because SV is in the United States, it has little to do with America as a whole, if it did then Silicon Valley would not be an exception within the United States.
Euro nations as a rule are not hostile to start-ups in any way that is different from say Texas or Michigan.
Then, finally, there are a large number of relevant EU tech start-ups. They are working from a slight disadvantage (need to market/sell immediately in a whole bunch of languages if they want to escape their home-territory) but plenty of them do well enough that they end up listed on stock-exchanges all over the planet.
That they are not relevant to you is another matter, but IT companies account for a huge percentage of EU employment and they're all doing stuff that they feel is relevant.
So it looks as if your argument mostly revolves around what you think is relevant and what isn't.
The only American company I can't seem to get around is Google, and they're a one-off even by US standards.
Apple, FB, MS, Twitter and so on can all be done without (at least: I could do without them).
On the hardware front that leaves Intel and AMD, neither of which could be classed as start-ups today any more than you could class Siemens or Sony as one.
Re: Can France Create Its Own MIT?
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
Out of curiosity, why is this true? Why does it seem like so many relevant tech companies are American, yet I see tons of talented European developers and conferences all the time? Are Euro nations just hostile to startups in a way the US isn't?
> Why does it seem like so many relevant tech companies are American The ones that are relevant to you . To me all but very few of the relevant tech companies are irrelevant, and the miracle of Silicon Valley has not been replicated inside the USA either. So the reason those companies are American is because SV is in the United States, it has little to do with America as a whole, if it did then Silicon Valley would n…
Seriously, this isn't meant to be mean, I just don't know any of them. There seems to be an unlimited array of talented euro engineers on twitter talking about specialized type systems and exotic data models and theoretical comp sci and then a net nothing on the software front. Do they all just leave and work in SV?
This is one of those cases where I would love someone to come in and set me right. I'd much rather a world where there is a huge amount of cool things happening that I'm unaware of, rather than just MS, Apple, and Google sucking all the engineers from their countries to Silicon Valley.
Re: Can France Create Its Own MIT?
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Why does it seem like so many relevant tech companies are American The ones that are relevant to you . To me all but very few of the relevant tech companies are irrelevant, and the miracle of Silicon Valley has not been replicated inside the USA either. So the reason those companies are American is because SV is in the United States, it has little to do with America as a whole, if it did then Silicon Valley would n…
You're right they don't seem relevant to me, but I can acknowledge some things are not relevant to me but are still important. Take Baidu for instance, I get I'll never likely use it, but that doesn't mean I don't acknowledge its importance. Looking at software vendors in the EU, there doesn't seem to be any companies that offer a service I would ever want. There are a few large ERP vendors, and some Anti-virus firms…
Re: Can France Create Its Own MIT?
#46What arrogance and ignorance. France has its own MIT, it's called École Polytechnique. There's also INRIA and other institutions...
The difference is that MIT draws on the world population whereas Ecole Polytechnique draws on the Francophone population.
Re: Can France Create Its Own MIT?
#47It can't, it shouldn't and it definitely does not have to. France is doing just fine in terms of research in many fields. Those that would like France to produce an 'MIT' would also like Europe to produce the next Facebook and neither is going to happen. But that doesn't mean things are bad, they're just different and no less valuable.
Out of curiosity, why is this true? Why does it seem like so many relevant tech companies are American, yet I see tons of talented European developers and conferences all the time? Are Euro nations just hostile to startups in a way the US isn't?
Also, the international language of (seemingly) everything became English, from science to, importantly in this context, computer code. When a Finnish graduate student created his new operating system, the code and his announcement were in English. Assuming you are a native English-speaker, imagine if programming languages, HTML, and network traffic were in French - how many fewer English-speakers would step over that hurdle and learn to code, to hack? How many teenagers would give it a try out of curiosity if they have to learn another language to do it? Imagine you are a French musician; what is the chance that a song you record in French will be heard in the U.S. or worldwide? Ever hear a French song in the U.S.? See French musicians on major tours in the U.S.? Can Americans name one French musician? But can people in France name American musicians? Do English-speaking U.S. musicians tour France? All the time, AFAIK.
Those things persist today, U.S. businesses still have an economic advantage; they can sell to an internal market of 320 million people, all in one language - and at ~$19 trillion annual GDP the largest internal market in the world by far (not counting the EU, which is a complicated topic). Then they can sell to another 100 million+ in other wealthy, English-speaking countries, and then to the rest of the world accustomed to hearing pop songs in English and watching movies in English. A French business has similar access to 60 million, plus part of Canada.
IME, Americans often don't realize how the modern world was built around them.
Re: Can France Create Its Own MIT?
#48It can't, it shouldn't and it definitely does not have to. France is doing just fine in terms of research in many fields. Those that would like France to produce an 'MIT' would also like Europe to produce the next Facebook and neither is going to happen. But that doesn't mean things are bad, they're just different and no less valuable.
Out of curiosity, why is this true? Why does it seem like so many relevant tech companies are American, yet I see tons of talented European developers and conferences all the time? Are Euro nations just hostile to startups in a way the US isn't?
Eventually old tech figured out what was going on, and almost got them shut down for patents or something. Fortunately, by the time that happened, it was clear ampex was crucial to the war effort.
At that point, the war machine somehow managed to override the politicians, so the US had significant radio communications advantages over its enemies.
This helped the war effort, but it also helped create Silicon Valley’s traditional deep-seated mistrust of Washington, and Washington’s hands-off attitude about CA tech companies.
Eventually, self-imposed regulatory capture strangled east coast tech to death, so all that’s left are universities and (now) NY’s bootstrapping startup scene (and, of course, the military tech complex near DC).
The sad part is that the current generation of Silicon Valley giants are consciously trying to dismantle the whole thing by lobbying DC, and writing regulatory capture bills like FOSTA and the CLOUD act (and many earlier examples).
Google led the charge at this years ago. After watching the MS anti-trust thing, they hoped they could preempt such “misunderstandings” with piles of lobbyist cash. (Source: their cofounders, years ago. They didn’t use the word “dismantle”, in fairness.)
It will he interesting to see what country will have enough common sense to replicate SV over the next 50 years.
In the article, it sounds like France is trying to create a low-regulation academic and economic zone for this new university push.
China keeps bouncing between “no law enforcement” and “extreme, protectionist regulation”, which sounds fundamentally unstable to me.
Also, there are probably a dozen other geographical regions playing in this space.
Anyway, to answer your question, Europe’s industrial base has historically been even more protectionist (can’t fire people, product specs are legislated, etc) than the US East coast, which is why that region won the mainframe and minicomputer wars.
I think there is a broader theme, where older governments do more and more things to protect the wealthy and borrow money to provide social services until the economy simply collapses.
Re: Can France Create Its Own MIT?
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
Out of curiosity, why is this true? Why does it seem like so many relevant tech companies are American, yet I see tons of talented European developers and conferences all the time? Are Euro nations just hostile to startups in a way the US isn't?
I'm not sure - but it's clear that having talented developers is not sufficient. What are the advantages to starting a startup in France vs joining an established company?
The US systems tilts the scales toward stronger employees. So, the more marketable your skills are, the more incentive you have to move to SV.
A slightly less offensive take on the situation is that, if you stay in Europe, you won’t be destitute, but you won’t get rich either.
However, note that there are many articles on HN that attempt to quantify this effect by looking at economic mobility. The consensus is that Europe is becoming more of a meritocracy and in the US, economic status is increasingly determined at birth.
Re: Can France Create Its Own MIT?
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not sure - but it's clear that having talented developers is not sufficient. What are the advantages to starting a startup in France vs joining an established company?
This is a cynical take, but, roughly speaking, in Europe, there are workers rights, and in the US, employment is at-will. The US systems tilts the scales toward stronger employees. So, the more marketable your skills are, the more incentive you have to move to SV. A slightly less offensive take on the situation is that, if you stay in Europe, you won’t be destitute, but you won’t get rich either. However, note that t…
Poor Americans have been hammered over the last two decades - and have now put their faith in Trump. Let's hope he can fix the system.
> This is a cynical take, but, roughly speaking, in Europe, there are workers rights, and in the US, employment is at-will.
What's counter-intuitive to me is you would think in a system with more workers rights the workers would take more risks - but the opposite is true.
I'm also surprised that in countries in Europe with huge youth unemployment we don't see outsized open source contributions.