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E-Cigarette Maker Juul Labs Is Raising $1.2B

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Re: E-Cigarette Maker Juul Labs Is Raising $1.2B

#41

Post by rland »

colordrops wrote: post #22
aphextron wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think this technology is great if it can reduce the harm of smoking and get people off of cigarettes. I think this was the initial hope for e-cigs, but reality has turned out differently. These things are leading to a whole new generation of nicotine addicts at a time when smoking has fallen to all time lows in the US. Juul particularly is getting kids hooked that otherwise would have never touched tobacco, and t…

Getting everyone off very poisonous deadly substances is a fair tradeoff for getting new people hooked on something as dangerous as coffee.

E-cigs didn't destroy the kid's market for traditional cigarettes, though. When I was in high school (right before vaping took off), smoking was only "cool" for a small subsection of the school. For everyone else, it was a stupid thing and kinda trashy. I'm guessing that the set of high school aged kids who would have picked up cigarette smoking if not for vaping is really quite small.

So, we worked for decades to eliminate cigarette dependency, made huge progress, and now kids largely don't smoke. And then vaping came along, and a company is receiving billions from investors to get kids addicted to nicotine.

Vaping is healthier, but I can't think of a conceivable reason why this is a good idea.

Re: E-Cigarette Maker Juul Labs Is Raising $1.2B

#42

Post by tigershark »

gringoDan wrote: post #3

I wonder how good it is for public health if Juul is able to grow this market. Do the health benefits from cigarette smokers switching to e-cigarettes offset the young people who never would have dreamt of smoking cigarettes heavily, but regularly use Juul? I had no idea how pervasive Juul was for college students until my sister told me that multiple people were "Juul-ing" in all of her classes. Highly recommend thi…

I never heard of this Jool-thingy before, but when I was smoking I switched to e-cig for a while and after a couple of month I had to stop altogether because one night I managed to smoke the equivalent of 2 packs of cigs in something like 4/5 hours. After that night I didn’t smoke for 8/9 months I think because the effect that it had on me was so awful. After some huge stress at work I started again and after a couple of years I finally stopped for good, I hope. Now it’s 3 years that I don’t touch a cig or an e-cig, and I really hope that the new generation doesn’t fall on the new and glamorous nicotine trap, although I’m not really optimistic...

Re: E-Cigarette Maker Juul Labs Is Raising $1.2B

#43

Post by malkuth23 »

slg wrote: post #35
varjag wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Methadone is safer than heroin and is widely used in substitution therapy. Either way, the bulk of health damage from smoking was from the complimentary products of burning. You ain't getting lung cancer from nicotine.

I am not aware of any doctors that would recommend using methadone permanently and and it is only legally available to be prescribed for ongoing substitution therapy by federally certified abuse recovery centers. So my analogy still stands. No one should be actively campaigning to grow the methadone market the way that people are for e-cigarettes.

The metaphor is somewhat flawed, but methadone is unfortunately often considered a life long way to manage an addiction.

Re: E-Cigarette Maker Juul Labs Is Raising $1.2B

#44

Post by tigershark »

varjag wrote: post #15
slg wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oxycontin is likely a safer drug than heroin. That doesn't mean we should be working on growing the Oxycontin market on the assumption that every new user is someone who might have otherwise used heroin.

Methadone is safer than heroin and is widely used in substitution therapy. Either way, the bulk of health damage from smoking was from the complimentary products of burning. You ain't getting lung cancer from nicotine.

As far as I remember you are getting cancer, although at a lower risk, at least accordingly to some study posted here in the past that I can’t pinpoint right now.

Re: E-Cigarette Maker Juul Labs Is Raising $1.2B

#45

Post by EpicEng »

TimTheTinker wrote: post #11
gringoDan wrote: post #3

I wonder how good it is for public health if Juul is able to grow this market. Do the health benefits from cigarette smokers switching to e-cigarettes offset the young people who never would have dreamt of smoking cigarettes heavily, but regularly use Juul? I had no idea how pervasive Juul was for college students until my sister told me that multiple people were "Juul-ing" in all of her classes. Highly recommend thi…

That’s a great article, and rather eye-opening. Juul may help cigarette smokers get away from tobacco, but wow — stories about teens and young adults taking Juul hits every 10-15 minutes are something else. That’s just plain addiction, taking them far beyond the threshold of diminishing returns, even for caffeine-like self-medication. There’s definitely a lot of money in creating addictions... this can’t be a long-te…

And when I was in school half the kids smoked cigarrettes. I have no idea what the numbers are, but you have to consider that fewer kids are using tobacco, which is a good thing.

Re: E-Cigarette Maker Juul Labs Is Raising $1.2B

#46

Post by GuiA »

cowpewter wrote: post #5

I've never been a smoker, but I do like vaping. Nicotine is a useful chemical when it's not accompanied by all the junk that comes with burning adulterated plant matter. I self-medicate with it for ADD. It helps me focus, more than caffeine does alone. I used to use the lozenges that are advertised for smoking cessation, but I switched to vaping about a year ago.

That is a nuance that a lot of people are missing.

Nicotine is highly addictive, but in itself does not kill you (at the amounts smokers/vapers are intaking it).

What kills you is the delivery mechanism. We have plenty of data for how the "burning up dried tobacco leaves" delivery mechanism kills you. However, currently, we have very little data regarding how propylene glycol does or does not kill you in the long term. That is the big open question when it comes to vaping.

Re: E-Cigarette Maker Juul Labs Is Raising $1.2B

#47

Post by lstodd »

vanadium wrote: post #9
robertpelloni wrote: post #4

For those who don't know, Juul is the inventor of the "salted nicotine" vaping trend which makes the nicotine spike much faster in the bloodstream than earlier vape juice, which is more like cigarettes. They have a patent but it appears to be ignored by the vape industry as "nicotine salts" are widely available (added benzoic acid). The nicotine level is also much higher, allowing for lower wattage devices and smalle…

As someone who quit a 17-year cigarette habit for vaping starting in the early-ish days (2011, and it's come so far since then), nicotine salts might be the answer to those who relapse from trying to quit via vaping because it "didn't feel right." Quite frankly, the narrative to smokers who want to quit from vapers who have has been "it's different, but be patient"; if a closer analogue gets out there that closes the…

Never heard about those 'nicotine salts'. Had the same problems coming from cigarettes (30+ a day) to vaping, that is, in stock juice nicotine content is just too low.

All it took was self-prepared mixes, higher in nicotine, very low in aromas and those tobacco-like, vg/pg mix just as I like it.

Came out about fifteen times cheaper than the off-the-shelf juices. Compared to the cost of cigs, even not counting health effects, vape is about two orders of magnitude cheaper.

Now I dare someone tell me that 30+ 8mg cigs a day are somehow less harmful than ~8cc of vape.

Re: E-Cigarette Maker Juul Labs Is Raising $1.2B

#48

Post by keypusher »

kenning wrote: post #34
rileyphone wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, nicotine is barely a carcinogen and is essentially on the same level as caffeine in terms of danger.

My impression is that nicotine is "essentially" harmless but caffeine is actually harmless, maybe even good for you (kind of like a glass of red wine a week).

Try taking a whole bunch of caffeine pills, definitely not harmless.

Re: E-Cigarette Maker Juul Labs Is Raising $1.2B

#49

Post by ghostbrainalpha »

Why is vaping more popular than Nicotine gum, and Nicotine patches?

A third party can't even tell their is anything special about your gum. So you would think it could be popular among high-school students and people on the air plane and the other situations that don't allow vapor clouds.

Re: E-Cigarette Maker Juul Labs Is Raising $1.2B

#50

Post by lstodd »

s73v3r_ wrote: post #33
vanadium wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who quit a 17-year cigarette habit for vaping starting in the early-ish days (2011, and it's come so far since then), nicotine salts might be the answer to those who relapse from trying to quit via vaping because it "didn't feel right." Quite frankly, the narrative to smokers who want to quit from vapers who have has been "it's different, but be patient"; if a closer analogue gets out there that closes the…

There are a lot of people who weren't smoking at all starting to vape as well. I would consider that a pretty big lose.

Why do you assume they wouldn't have started smoking in absence of vape?
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