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Netflix and Alphabet will need to become ISPs, fast

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Re: Netflix and Alphabet will need to become ISPs, fast

#41

Post by martinald »

haikuginger wrote: post #19
kec wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how 5G changes anything. Wireless providers were exempt from net neutrality even when it was in force and have a long history of tiered usage and throttling.

Having wireless providers who are able to provide landline-level speeds means that many markets will go from having one or maybe two real ISP options to having three or four. Competition means that if the benefits of net neutrality are desirable, customers will prefer an ISP (wireless or otherwise) that provides those benefits. Of course, most actual counterexamples to net neutrality are seen as positives (free Netfl…

I really don't get why people think this is possible. Even with microcells and loads of spectrum, you might be able to get 2gigabit/sec of internet per cell, which would be enough for perhaps a couple hundred streams (not including all the other internet services people require all the time).

Considering most cells right now serve thousands if not tens of thousands of devices, there is simply no way that wireless broadband will ever be able to service that, unless you have hundreds of femtocells, but at that point you might as well just deliver fibre to the home as you'll be a few metres from the premises.

5G really changes nothing of this. Shannon's law dictates this and we are close to topping out on it in terms of radio efficiency.

Re: Netflix and Alphabet will need to become ISPs, fast

#43

Post by dsabanin »

knowuh wrote: post #40
dsabanin wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just fail to see how Comcast or Verizon are going to be selling you their internet connection if you won't be able to connect to the things you want to connect to (like Netflix, iTunes, YouTube) through them. Especially on higher plans, people buy a lot of bandwidth so that they can stream videos, that's how ISPs up-sell to them. If they start throttling, they'll be selling an empty bucket, and it's not going to be…

You must live in one of the few places in the US where high-speed internet is available through multiple providers. That is definitely not the norm. Most people won't be able to simply switch to the least nasty provider.

But that's my point, it will give a smaller-sized competition more chances to differentiate, since users might start looking for something better.

Re: Netflix and Alphabet will need to become ISPs, fast

#44

Post by mattnewton »

rayiner wrote: post #35
pascalxus wrote: post #5

This the end of innovation in online videos: "When companies like Netflix, which today closed with a market cap of almost $158 billion, can’t necessarily get enough negotiating power to ensure that consumers have direct access to them, no startup can ever hope to compete. America may believe in its entrepreneurs, but its competition laws have done nothing to keep the terrain open for them. Those implications are just…

Is it? Startups manage to continue to exist on the Google Play Store and on the iOS App Store, even though Apple and Google directly compete with many of their offerings. Consumers basically have just two choices for mobile platform, but somehow that's enough competition to keep the kind of behavior you talk about in check.

None that could ever be an existential threat to the gatekeepers tough; that only happens on the open web. Which is about to be a lot less open.

Re: Netflix and Alphabet will need to become ISPs, fast

#45

Post by mattnewton »

murph-almighty wrote: post #9
pascalxus wrote: post #5

This the end of innovation in online videos: "When companies like Netflix, which today closed with a market cap of almost $158 billion, can’t necessarily get enough negotiating power to ensure that consumers have direct access to them, no startup can ever hope to compete. America may believe in its entrepreneurs, but its competition laws have done nothing to keep the terrain open for them. Those implications are just…

All books are now sold with a small display attached that gives you a URL. The book is magnetically sealed until you take out your phone, navigate to that URL, and watch an ad.

Sounds like a fun way to spend an afternoon figuring out how to defeat the lock.

Re: Netflix and Alphabet will need to become ISPs, fast

#46

Post by jedberg »

pooya13 wrote: post #24
cirgue wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Lobbying the government to restore net neutrality is far cheaper than building out an ISP. Also, I suspect that state-level legislative initiatives are going to be much easier to win than trying to sue executive agencies.

Just wondering. Would it matter if they win on state level if the traffic is slowed down on its route in another state? Also do the states even have the authority if the federal government wants to enforce the states to get rid of NN?

State level matters because if you for example get NN restored in California, New York, and Texas, it's cheaper for the ISP to do NN everywhere then to try and figure out all the traffic destined to or coming from a customer in California, New York, or Texas.

Re: Netflix and Alphabet will need to become ISPs, fast

#47

Post by ethbro »

knowuh wrote: post #40
dsabanin wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just fail to see how Comcast or Verizon are going to be selling you their internet connection if you won't be able to connect to the things you want to connect to (like Netflix, iTunes, YouTube) through them. Especially on higher plans, people buy a lot of bandwidth so that they can stream videos, that's how ISPs up-sell to them. If they start throttling, they'll be selling an empty bucket, and it's not going to be…

You must live in one of the few places in the US where high-speed internet is available through multiple providers. That is definitely not the norm. Most people won't be able to simply switch to the least nasty provider.

If the FCC really wanted to promote competition instead of profits, they could mandate nationwide access to utility poles & shared conduit.

As well as making exclusive franchise agreements illegal.

Re: Netflix and Alphabet will need to become ISPs, fast

#48

Post by falcolas »

dsabanin wrote: post #43
knowuh wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You must live in one of the few places in the US where high-speed internet is available through multiple providers. That is definitely not the norm. Most people won't be able to simply switch to the least nasty provider.

But that's my point, it will give a smaller-sized competition more chances to differentiate, since users might start looking for something better.

What smaller competition will be capable of laying copper or fiber to its constituents? Even cities are, in many cases, rendered incapable of providing competition.

And, for the record, wireless is not a viable competition for copper, let alone fiber. The available bandwidth by the most cutting-edge offerings is too low and latency is too high.

Re: Netflix and Alphabet will need to become ISPs, fast

#49

Post by jerf »

craftyguy wrote: post #28
manofmanysmiles wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This type of comment implies you think the world is static. I'm not saying that this good, but what makes you so sure market and social forces won't produce a better model? To me this is just a temporary setback, and a reminder why we need to focus on developing new technologies, like a "truly decentralized internet", blockchain, cryptography, and more. It almost feels like a the death throws of a monster that will d…

I was going to reply with some cynical remark about how the hole we are digging is deeper now than ever, and would take radical changes to climb out of, but I really like your positive spin on this. I'll try to consider it from that perspective moving forward.

Remember, we're not meaningfully in a hole "deeper than ever", because there isn't an "ever". As much as it may feel like the Internet has been around forever, this is all new ground, for everybody, and surprises may yet be around the corner. I guarantee you in 2018 that the "FANG" acronym will be out of date. I don't know which of them may or may not be in there, and I don't know who may get added, but the landscape will be different.

Re: Netflix and Alphabet will need to become ISPs, fast

#50

Post by staplers »

dsabanin wrote: post #43
knowuh wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You must live in one of the few places in the US where high-speed internet is available through multiple providers. That is definitely not the norm. Most people won't be able to simply switch to the least nasty provider.

But that's my point, it will give a smaller-sized competition more chances to differentiate, since users might start looking for something better.

On what infrastructure? Pigeon carriers?
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