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Avoid FIFA World Cup CDN Issues

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Re: Avoid FIFA World Cup CDN Issues

#41

Post by mayneack »

isostatic wrote: post #10

What amazes me is the lack of concern on latency for web streaming. We use the internet (and IP in general) to stream video. At high bitrates (200mbit+) we aim for sub 100ms end to end, for compressed services we're happy with 500ms, maybe upto a second if it's something like Sydney to London over the internet. I was in a control room a couple of weeks ago watching some football. There were two displays, one end was…

I stream a lot of sports from home. I would gladly trade delays for stream stability/quality. I frequently have to switch from a legal stream that I pay for to a more robust illegal stream.

It would be annoying if there were multiple devices nearby on different delays, but for me in my living room. I don't care if it's 30 seconds or 3 minutes. I've gotten spoiled by twitter feeds a few times, but it's not the end of the world.

Re: Avoid FIFA World Cup CDN Issues

#42

Post by ctlaltdefeat »

lossolo wrote: post #34

I've started building P2P live adaptive (DASH) live video streaming using WebRTC with distributed rate control mechanism some time ago and I am planning to open source it. Basically using that you could build your own p2p global distributed live adaptive video streaming CDN (or use it on one server only). Adding new supporting server (to add additional bandwidth) in this solution is just as easy as spawning vm/server…

Yes!

Re: Avoid FIFA World Cup CDN Issues

#43

Post by LunaSea »

_trampeltier wrote: post #21
isostatic wrote: post #10

What amazes me is the lack of concern on latency for web streaming. We use the internet (and IP in general) to stream video. At high bitrates (200mbit+) we aim for sub 100ms end to end, for compressed services we're happy with 500ms, maybe upto a second if it's something like Sydney to London over the internet. I was in a control room a couple of weeks ago watching some football. There were two displays, one end was…

Already since over 20 years, the german TV chanel "RTL" is about 15 seconds later than all other TV chanels on live events like formula 1. But I have no idea why it is.

Luxembourgish channel

Re: Avoid FIFA World Cup CDN Issues

#45

Post by NoNotTheDuo »

mtberatwork wrote: post #32
bradleybuda wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US we've seen a half-dozen over-the-top TV providers launch in the past couple of years. They all seem to understand that live sports is their core feature, yet none of them tries to compete on latency. I regularly see two or more minutes from reading tweets about a goal or touchdown (from broadcast or cable viewers) until I see that TD live on Sling / PSVue / DirecTV NOW / YouTube TV (I've tried them all). Se…

Doesn't "second-screening" while watching a sports event interfere with the act of watching the sports event in the first place?

For games like American Football, there's only 11 actual minutes of action, but it takes 3+ hours to complete the game[0]. That leaves a lot of time to watch a second screen.

[0]: https://qz.com/150577/an-average-nfl-game-more-than-100-comm...

Re: Avoid FIFA World Cup CDN Issues

#46

Post by isostatic »

newest_user_ wrote: post #38
Harvey-Specter wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The theory being that a sniper or drone operator cannot use the "live TV" footage to know their exact position. How is this helpful in either of these cases? A sniper needs eyes on, a drone operator probably has live video from the drone. I don't see how a TV delay would have any effect.

I'm going to assume the example was a bad one. I could see something like a remotely activated bomb leveraging live TV to inflict the most damage.

So watch the international feed

Re: Avoid FIFA World Cup CDN Issues

#47

Post by fasteddy760 »

lossolo wrote: post #34

I've started building P2P live adaptive (DASH) live video streaming using WebRTC with distributed rate control mechanism some time ago and I am planning to open source it. Basically using that you could build your own p2p global distributed live adaptive video streaming CDN (or use it on one server only). Adding new supporting server (to add additional bandwidth) in this solution is just as easy as spawning vm/server…

Yes! How do I keep updated with progress? Do you have a project hosted somewhere?

Re: Avoid FIFA World Cup CDN Issues

#48

Post by LusoTycoon »

lossolo wrote: post #34

I've started building P2P live adaptive (DASH) live video streaming using WebRTC with distributed rate control mechanism some time ago and I am planning to open source it. Basically using that you could build your own p2p global distributed live adaptive video streaming CDN (or use it on one server only). Adding new supporting server (to add additional bandwidth) in this solution is just as easy as spawning vm/server…

yes please

Re: Avoid FIFA World Cup CDN Issues

#49

Post by isostatic »

mv4 wrote: post #30
isostatic wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

60 seconds in the case of iplayer for the fa cup. 1m20 in the case of BBC News channel right now. HLS tends to be packetised in something like 15 second chunks at the end of the process. I know why there's a delay, I'm just amazed that people aren't concerned about it. The BBC used to offer multicast sources of live TV, which is a far more sensible solution, far more bandwidth efficient and allows end-to-end transmis…

Honestly, I think people are concerned, but everyone's experience to date with big streaming events has been that something invariably goes wrong - people can't connect, login issues, event won't start, buffering, etc (e.g. the McGregor Mayweather PPV). If you can get a high-quality stream at all, perhaps the time shift is secondary!

I only usually deal with the distribution side as an end user, and personally I tend to watch about 2 live events a year (I'd watch new years, but that's clearly pointless, so that leaves eurovision and maybe an election program), so I don't have much experience with that side.

It does amuse me when we were looking at latency for a program from a ropey bit of connectivity which we were using ARQ on. We were discussing whether we could push the latency up from 2 seconds to 6 seconds (it kept dropping out for 2 or 3 seconds at a time), as it's sport. Then we realised there was a good 30-40 seconds downstream before it even left to the CDN!

I still don't understand half of what Streampunk [1] are trying to do with their nmos grain workflows, but they are talking about sub-frame HTTP units

  This is not an approach that supports line-synced timing and may not be appropriate for live sports action that requires extremely low latency. 
  However, for many current SDI workflows that can tolerate a small delay, this approach is sufficient.
With UHD you're talking 20MBytes for a single frame, or each "grain" (a subdivision of a frame) being in the order of a millisecond/megabyte.

I think I prefer this approach to the SMPTE 2110 approach to be honest, especially with the timing windows that 2110 requires (it doesn't lead well to a COTS virtualised environment when your packets have to be emitted at a specific microsecond)

But I digress, this is all very off topic

[0] https://github.com/Streampunk/arachnid [1] https://www.streampunk.media/

Re: Avoid FIFA World Cup CDN Issues

#50

Post by isostatic »

mtberatwork wrote: post #32
bradleybuda wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US we've seen a half-dozen over-the-top TV providers launch in the past couple of years. They all seem to understand that live sports is their core feature, yet none of them tries to compete on latency. I regularly see two or more minutes from reading tweets about a goal or touchdown (from broadcast or cable viewers) until I see that TD live on Sling / PSVue / DirecTV NOW / YouTube TV (I've tried them all). Se…

Doesn't "second-screening" while watching a sports event interfere with the act of watching the sports event in the first place?

Second screening even in things like drama is very popular.

If you're watching a sports game, I can see that having a second stream (perhaps curated) with easy to access stats on that game, or a different angle to what the director thinks you want, or whatever.

I don't see the appeal of second stream in drama, but in things like sport, yes

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