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If the Robots Come for Our Jobs, What Should the Government Do?

nytimes.com

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Re: If the Robots Come for Our Jobs, What Should the Government Do?

#41

Post by chongli »

mindcrime wrote: post #13
Proven wrote: post #2

The government should do precisely NOTHING. The jobs don't belong to workers, so the premise is entirely wrong to begin with.

The government should do precisely NOTHING. Exactly. It is not the job of the State to make sure everybody has a job. Arguably all the State should do is protect property rights, enforce contracts and provide some notion of a "justice system". And really, all three of those things can be debated. The best way to think of it, IMO, is the way Bastiat[1] put it by describing "the law" as "no more than the collective ext…

The job of the state, ultimately, is to preserve itself. In practice, that means upholding a social contract in order to maintain order. If we see a widespread outbreak of technological unemployment then more effort on the part of government is necessary lest public order breaks down.

It's that simple. No moral arguments are necessary.

Re: If the Robots Come for Our Jobs, What Should the Government Do?

#42

Post by Clubber »

chongli wrote: post #32
nickthemagicman wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly the point. Humans rely on jobs, what happens when robots take over?

We don't actually rely on jobs, we just force one another to work to satisfy our principles of fairness. In theory we could agree on a different notion of fairness that doesn't require everybody to work, we just choose not to.

Yes, before industrialization, the US was filled with entrepreneurs in the form of farmers and ranchers. Here's some land, go live. Families would grow what they needed to survive, then sell the rest for money to buy stuff they couldn't make themselves. It was fairly self sustaining, but vulnerable to drought, etc.

I think one of the problems today is there really isn't a way to self sustain anymore with just land and some hard work, so we need jobs to survive.

Re: If the Robots Come for Our Jobs, What Should the Government Do?

#43

Post by awakeasleep »

creaghpatr wrote: post #27

And despite all of these concerns, the NYT frequently and consistently advocates for increases in low-skill immigrants, the very people who will the government will need to support when the 'robots come for [their] jobs'. The question is which of those 2 arguments are disingenuous?

Do you think it's possible that the NYT has authors with different perspectives and that every article written may not come from a consistent viewpoint?

Re: If the Robots Come for Our Jobs, What Should the Government Do?

#44

Post by trendia »

rootusrootus wrote: post #29
trendia wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The total US tax revenue in 2017 was $3.422 trillion. If you split that evenly among 300 million people, each would get $11,000, which is half of the poverty line of $22,000. Even if you thought that little money was acceptable, to afford it you'd have to cut: 1. all military programs 2. all existing social security programs 3. all government infrastructure projects 4. all education programs 5. ...

Well, yes, it would require significantly increasing tax revenue to pay for it.

To get everyone up to the poverty line and not have to cut government projects, you'd have to triple tax revenue.

Since the average tax burden for those making $500k+ is around 30% already, that would effectively mean taxing them at 90%.

I don't think it's politically feasible.

Re: If the Robots Come for Our Jobs, What Should the Government Do?

#45

Post by petermcneeley »

trendia wrote: post #16
swayvil wrote: post #12

Do guaranteed minimum income. Give everybody a computer and lots of free time. If 0.001% of those people become hobbyist software developers it will pay for the program in a year. And we will probably get AI in two.

The total US tax revenue in 2017 was $3.422 trillion. If you split that evenly among 300 million people, each would get $11,000, which is half of the poverty line of $22,000. Even if you thought that little money was acceptable, to afford it you'd have to cut: 1. all military programs 2. all existing social security programs 3. all government infrastructure projects 4. all education programs 5. ...

Is this an honest reply? The middle sees no real change in total income, the only the extremes see changes in total income.

Re: If the Robots Come for Our Jobs, What Should the Government Do?

#46

Post by [deleted] »

mindcrime wrote: post #13
Proven wrote: post #2

The government should do precisely NOTHING. The jobs don't belong to workers, so the premise is entirely wrong to begin with.

The government should do precisely NOTHING. Exactly. It is not the job of the State to make sure everybody has a job. Arguably all the State should do is protect property rights, enforce contracts and provide some notion of a "justice system". And really, all three of those things can be debated. The best way to think of it, IMO, is the way Bastiat[1] put it by describing "the law" as "no more than the collective ext…

[deleted]

Re: If the Robots Come for Our Jobs, What Should the Government Do?

#47

Post by protonimitate »

nickthemagicman wrote: post #20
mc32 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’d also remove the way for lots of people to make a living. The unemployed only know that making a living in a lousy industry is better than not making any living at all.

That's exactly the point. Humans rely on jobs, what happens when robots take over?

Why do we assume that robots will replace all existing work, or that the jobs being automated won't be replaced by other forms of work or income that don't rely on jobs that can be automated?

I think it's a bit sensationalist to assume that all work everywhere will be automated.

Even if we get to the point where that happens, capitalism as we know it would crumble if there is literally only automated jobs and robots owners.

Re: If the Robots Come for Our Jobs, What Should the Government Do?

#48

Post by EastLondonCoder »

creaghpatr wrote: post #27

And despite all of these concerns, the NYT frequently and consistently advocates for increases in low-skill immigrants, the very people who will the government will need to support when the 'robots come for [their] jobs'. The question is which of those 2 arguments are disingenuous?

The strongest argument for increased immigration is that most if not all of the western world has a declining population. Also its also not yet clear what types of jobs will be easy to automate. For example I think an assistant nurse would be very for a robot to do. A radiologist less so.

Re: If the Robots Come for Our Jobs, What Should the Government Do?

#49

Post by sp332 »

mozumder wrote: post #35

Raise everyone up a level to make sure they can perform jobs that robots can't do, like get an advanced degree or incorporate a business. Make it a requirement for citizenship.

You run into diminishing returns pretty quickly that way. Having an advanced degree doesn't prevent a robot from taking your job. Maybe we should let the robots do the work and find something cool to do with our time instead.

Re: If the Robots Come for Our Jobs, What Should the Government Do?

#50

Post by RobertoG »

trendia wrote: post #16
swayvil wrote: post #12

Do guaranteed minimum income. Give everybody a computer and lots of free time. If 0.001% of those people become hobbyist software developers it will pay for the program in a year. And we will probably get AI in two.

The total US tax revenue in 2017 was $3.422 trillion. If you split that evenly among 300 million people, each would get $11,000, which is half of the poverty line of $22,000. Even if you thought that little money was acceptable, to afford it you'd have to cut: 1. all military programs 2. all existing social security programs 3. all government infrastructure projects 4. all education programs 5. ...

Another data point: GDP per capita is around $50.000.
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