Social Security says system's costs will exceed income this year • Hacker News Board

Re: Social Security says system's costs will exceed income this year

#41

Post by dgzl » Wed, Jun 06, 2018, 10:27 PM UTC

encoderer wrote: post #7

gringoDan wrote: post #5

We've known this was coming for a long time...as a Millennial, I don't expect to ever see a cent of Social Security benefits.

As a millennial, I do. There are just too many easy mitigations here that will extend life several decades: - Remove the cap and tax income above $120k, just like medicare and income tax - Increased tax rate, possibly just on payroll not income (the employer-paid portion) - Limited forms of means-testing (Maybe, attenuated survivor benefits as your estate value clears a certain high mark like $3 million) - Eliminate…

As a millennial-ish, I think the government should stop stealing my money and make Social Security opt-in only.

Re: Social Security says system's costs will exceed income this year

#42

Post by encoderer » Wed, Jun 06, 2018, 10:30 PM UTC

maerF0x0 wrote: post #20

encoderer wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a millennial, I do. There are just too many easy mitigations here that will extend life several decades: - Remove the cap and tax income above $120k, just like medicare and income tax - Increased tax rate, possibly just on payroll not income (the employer-paid portion) - Limited forms of means-testing (Maybe, attenuated survivor benefits as your estate value clears a certain high mark like $3 million) - Eliminate…

means testing is super unfair to those who sacrificed lifestyle in their youth to save for retirement. Consider the person that could have, but didnt, live a lavish lifestyle and instead responsibly saved. Then a benefit (which they paid into, and maybe rely upon) is removed after the fact? Bad news.

Social Security is not a retirement account. We're paying today for the current generation of retirees so we don't have a class of elderly homeless eating cat food and dying in our streets.

Means testing is consistent with this outcome.

Re: Social Security says system's costs will exceed income this year

#43

Post by jhayward » Wed, Jun 06, 2018, 10:34 PM UTC

maerF0x0 wrote: post #20

encoderer wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a millennial, I do. There are just too many easy mitigations here that will extend life several decades: - Remove the cap and tax income above $120k, just like medicare and income tax - Increased tax rate, possibly just on payroll not income (the employer-paid portion) - Limited forms of means-testing (Maybe, attenuated survivor benefits as your estate value clears a certain high mark like $3 million) - Eliminate…

means testing is super unfair to those who sacrificed lifestyle in their youth to save for retirement. Consider the person that could have, but didnt, live a lavish lifestyle and instead responsibly saved. Then a benefit (which they paid into, and maybe rely upon) is removed after the fact? Bad news.

The marginal value of each dollar of social security benefit is smaller for those with independent wealth. Means testing is a way of making sure that each SSI dollar is highly valued.

Re: Social Security says system's costs will exceed income this year

#44

Post by jhayward » Wed, Jun 06, 2018, 10:35 PM UTC

gringoDan wrote: post #5

We've known this was coming for a long time...as a Millennial, I don't expect to ever see a cent of Social Security benefits.

Social security is eminently and easily fixable. It's just been obstructed for decades by people of bad faith who want to burn it, and the country, to the ground.

Re: Social Security says system's costs will exceed income this year

#45

Post by lewis500 » Wed, Jun 06, 2018, 10:37 PM UTC

gringoDan wrote: post #5

We've known this was coming for a long time...as a Millennial, I don't expect to ever see a cent of Social Security benefits.

You will have Social Security. You just might receive something closer to the current level of social security benefits rather than a more generous package. Social Security benefits are indexed to median wages, which rise over time. If they just don't increase benefits so quickly system will be fine. Likewise, a hike in taxes which would still leave us one of the lower-taxed industrialized countries would do the trick.

A funny thing is that we have both fear of automation and fear of insolvent social security. If the economy gets more automated it will grow quickly, and it will be easy to tax the additional income to pay for social security---although we may have to use a value-added tax or a higher corporate tax rather than payroll taxes.

Re: Social Security says system's costs will exceed income this year

#46

Post by mikeash » Wed, Jun 06, 2018, 10:39 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #32

vannevar wrote: post #30

There are two problems with SS, one fixable, one less so. The hard to fix problem is slowing population growth. SS depends on young workers to fund the payments to retirees. But this is really only a problem if aggregate income growth declines with population growth, and it hasn't; the aggregate income of all Americans has quadrupled since 1982, the last time this shortfall occurred. The problem is that the vast majo…

> If we had sane progressive tax policy in the US, the SS shortfall would evaporate. Our tax policy is among the most progressive in the developed world: https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/02/us-taxe... . The real problem is that the average income earner doesn't pay enough Social Security taxes to cover what they will receive in benefits: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2013/feb/01/...…

Is our tax policy still among the most progressive if you account for the full payroll tax (not just the employee side as apparently that study does) as well as the many other federal, state, and local taxes we pay?

Re: Social Security says system's costs will exceed income this year

#47

Post by kazinator » Wed, Jun 06, 2018, 10:40 PM UTC

mullingitover wrote: post #11

gringoDan wrote: post #5

We've known this was coming for a long time...as a Millennial, I don't expect to ever see a cent of Social Security benefits.

As a millenial, I'm eating a teaspoon of cat food each day to prepare my body for the day when it becomes my full-time diet.

Just learn to purr and chase balls of yarn; you can be coddled as some rich old spinster's pet.

Re: Social Security says system's costs will exceed income this year

#48

Post by craftyguy » Wed, Jun 06, 2018, 10:46 PM UTC

encoderer wrote: post #42

maerF0x0 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

means testing is super unfair to those who sacrificed lifestyle in their youth to save for retirement. Consider the person that could have, but didnt, live a lavish lifestyle and instead responsibly saved. Then a benefit (which they paid into, and maybe rely upon) is removed after the fact? Bad news.

Social Security is not a retirement account. We're paying today for the current generation of retirees so we don't have a class of elderly homeless eating cat food and dying in our streets. Means testing is consistent with this outcome.

> so we don't have a class of elderly homeless eating cat food and dying in our streets.

Too bad we already do, and the number seems to be increasing rapidly: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/31/us/americas-aging-homeles...

So if Social Security isn't helping with that, what other excuses are there?

Re: Social Security says system's costs will exceed income this year

#49

Post by craftyguy » Wed, Jun 06, 2018, 10:48 PM UTC

dgzl wrote: post #41

encoderer wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a millennial, I do. There are just too many easy mitigations here that will extend life several decades: - Remove the cap and tax income above $120k, just like medicare and income tax - Increased tax rate, possibly just on payroll not income (the employer-paid portion) - Limited forms of means-testing (Maybe, attenuated survivor benefits as your estate value clears a certain high mark like $3 million) - Eliminate…

As a millennial-ish, I think the government should stop stealing my money and make Social Security opt-in only.

As a millennial, I think the problem with that approach is that no one would opt-in, but everyone would feel entitled to receive the benefits if they failed to save enough for their own retirement (and realized it).

Re: Social Security says system's costs will exceed income this year

#50

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jun 06, 2018, 10:49 PM UTC

misterbwong wrote: post #18

encoderer wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a millennial, I do. There are just too many easy mitigations here that will extend life several decades: - Remove the cap and tax income above $120k, just like medicare and income tax - Increased tax rate, possibly just on payroll not income (the employer-paid portion) - Limited forms of means-testing (Maybe, attenuated survivor benefits as your estate value clears a certain high mark like $3 million) - Eliminate…

Came here to say the same thing. There are some very sensible fixes to extend SS to younger folks. Medicare, however, is another story.

[deleted]