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The Ugly Truth About Classic Games. They Are Terrible.

jeff-vogel.blogspot.com

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Re: The Ugly Truth About Classic Games. They Are Terrible.

#41

Post by rograndom »

jsrfded wrote: post #19
danilocampos wrote: post #2

Timeless classic games: - Super Mario 3 - Super Mario World - Mega Man X - Baldur's Gate Still 100% fun. Dunno how they manage it.

I got my apple 2 out of storage, and my 11 year old son got addicted to Apple Galaxian. Was one of my favorite games, I thought it was interesting that even though he played modern xbox and wii games he could get so wrapped up in a game that old. Comes down to solid game mechanics and playability I guess.

I got my 9 yo hooked on Lemonade Stand through a Apple 2 emulator.

Re: The Ugly Truth About Classic Games. They Are Terrible.

#42

Post by wazoox »

lmkg wrote: post #35

Broadly, there are two types of games that are important enough to remember years (or decades) later: those that are ground-breaking, and those that are good. Ones that are only breakthroughs can stay remembered for their historical significance, even though new iterations improve upon their formulas and eventually surpass them. Games that are good for reasons beyond being a technical breakthrough are the ones more l…

> My personal favorite timeless classic is X-COM: UFO Defense

My, this game is so great. It's actually much better now, because you don't need to wait for 20 minutes at each turn in the later levels (yes, up to 20 minutes back when I played it on a 386SX 16Mhz with 2MB RAM).

Re: The Ugly Truth About Classic Games. They Are Terrible.

#43

Post by ajuc »

Xurinos wrote: post #27

I know it is all a matter of opinion, but as someone who dabbles in game development (I am an admin of the Dark Mists MUD, after all), here is my perspective: If you look across the spectrum of oldstyle games, there are a few aspects off the top of my head that were responsible for our fun: challenge by control limits, challenge by time limits, and challenge by perfection (restarts, saves, etc). Joust is a perfect ex…

Good observation about different challenges.

Different people like different things. I like games that allows mastery of complex control scheme, and exercises reflex. It's great feeling, when you have complete control.

Some games are based on logical thinking, story, strategy, etc - in these games difficult controls is just distraction, and it makes experience worse. Control schemes evolved, so older games had worse than new games (also computers evolved, now it's easier to do good ui than 10 years ago).

For me one of the best games was "Icy Tower" - very simple concept, simple graphic, no story to speak of. It aged very well.

Doom - the same - the feeling of nicely timed double shotgun shot is very rewarding, it doesn't matter you are shooting to rectangles.

I've seen in some game design book the distinction between a game and a toy. Toy is when you are given some cool object to manipulate, and some constraints, and that's it. Game has rules and objectives, you must solve some problem.

You can make a game without a toy - when there is no pleasure apart from solving problems.

You can also make a toy without making a game - it will be boring after a while, because there will be no objective, no problems to solve.

But great game is when you have cool toy and interesting problem to solve with it - these games plays great even after years.

Re: The Ugly Truth About Classic Games. They Are Terrible.

#44

Post by scott_s »

saint-loup wrote: post #25
danilocampos wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, hell yes. I loved Zelda on the SNES. As immersive as was possible given the period's technology. It really took me to another place.

The question is: do you still love it? Does your son love it?

Yes, and I don't have any children. I still play it sometimes. For me, the SNES era represents the period of "getting it" for 2D games.

Re: The Ugly Truth About Classic Games. They Are Terrible.

#45

Post by ajuc »

wazoox wrote: post #42
lmkg wrote: post #35

Broadly, there are two types of games that are important enough to remember years (or decades) later: those that are ground-breaking, and those that are good. Ones that are only breakthroughs can stay remembered for their historical significance, even though new iterations improve upon their formulas and eventually surpass them. Games that are good for reasons beyond being a technical breakthrough are the ones more l…

> My personal favorite timeless classic is X-COM: UFO Defense My, this game is so great. It's actually much better now, because you don't need to wait for 20 minutes at each turn in the later levels (yes, up to 20 minutes back when I played it on a 386SX 16Mhz with 2MB RAM).

It's a great game, but I've noticed that after a while I've been bored with battles - I prefered allocating resources, waiting for new discoveries, battles felt a little too long, especially killing the last few aliens on each map.

I wonder if others feel the same?

Re: The Ugly Truth About Classic Games. They Are Terrible.

#46

Post by acabal »

lmkg wrote: post #35

Broadly, there are two types of games that are important enough to remember years (or decades) later: those that are ground-breaking, and those that are good. Ones that are only breakthroughs can stay remembered for their historical significance, even though new iterations improve upon their formulas and eventually surpass them. Games that are good for reasons beyond being a technical breakthrough are the ones more l…

I'd say the big thing that defines a timeless game is the story and atmosphere. Chrono Trigger, for example: fairly mundane RPG gameplay, 16-bit graphics, but the fantastic story has made me replay it several times over the years. Or one of my personal all-time favorite games, Elder Scrolls: Morrowind. It's a deeply flawed game both in terms of gameplay mechanics and technical details (it's shockingly buggy) but the deep, intricate story and well-realized atmosphere make it, in my opinion, much more fun to play than its newer and much more beautiful sibling, Oblivion. I was thinking of re-playing it just yesterday, in fact. Half-Life is another example.

System Shock 2 has a deep, creepy atmosphere and engaging story despite looking worse than Half-Life, and it's one of my favorites. Mass Effect is a more recent example--while it's still near the top of the heap graphics-wise, I thought the gameplay was pretty flawed. Despite that the amazing story and characters pretty much guarantee that I'll come back to it in 5 year's time.

For me, it's all about the story.

Re: The Ugly Truth About Classic Games. They Are Terrible.

#48

Post by acabal »

bherms wrote: post #9

My favorite game of all time was made in 1998... 12 years later I still play it maybe once a year. Anyone else a big fan of Grim Fandango? I wish they would resurrect this game, or at least do an update to it like they did with Monkey Island.

I absolutely loved that game, but I lost the disc a long time ago :(

Re: The Ugly Truth About Classic Games. They Are Terrible.

#49

Post by evo_9 »

aspir wrote: post #16

Donkey Kong (arcade version) is still the only game that, in my opinion serves as a true metric of core gaming skills (tenacity, patience, hand-eye, etc) New games won't ever come close to that era in regards to sheer difficulty

Yeah, that is one of the hardest games ever made. Probably why the high-score is still contested. Side note - Billy Mitchell just lost the title back to his Kind of Kong rival Steve Wiebe.

Excellent film too - for those who missed it: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0923752/

I'd place Robotron: 2084 (arcade) in that same category - seriously one of the hardest games ever made, mostly due to the dual control requiring a fair amount of ambidextrous skills.

Re: The Ugly Truth About Classic Games. They Are Terrible.

#50

Post by faragon »

I still find enjoyable the following:

Star Force (1984, Tehkan, Arcade game)

Black Tiger (Capcom, 1987, Arcade game (2x Z80), 7 megabit ROM set)

Ninja Kid II (UPL, 1987, Arcade game)

Legend of Hero Tonma (Irem, 1989, Arcade Game)

Parodius Da! - Shinwa kara Owarai e (Konami, 1990, Arcade game)

Super Mario World (Nintendo, 1990, SNES, 4 megabit ROM cartridge)

The Legend of the Mystical Ninja (Konami, 1991, SNES, 8 megabit ROM cartridge)

Super Metroid (Nintendo, 1994, SNES, 24 megabit ROM cartridge)

Super Mario 64 (Nintendo, 1996, N64, 64 megabit ROM cartridge)

Castlevania: Symphony of the Night (1997, Playstation, CD-ROM)

It is possible to play it in its original form, and also in the PC, using emulators.

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