Very much in line with Apple's way of doing things. God forbid they'd adopt some sort of open standard - even though they've hugely benefited from them.
Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL
41–50 of 466 posts
Re: Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL
#42While this is startling, it seems pretty consistent with Apple's modus operandi in a lot of areas -- leap forward to where they think the industry is going and hope they're right. OpenGL is effectively being deprecated by its own developers in favor of Vulkan, which has an open source implementation for macOS and iOS, developed in part by Valve, built on top of Metal:
https://store.steampowered.com/news/37575/
If game developers -- and game engine developers -- targeting OpenGL now are in the process of moving to target Vulkan, and if MoltenVK ends up offering better performance on macOS than Apple's legendarily anemic OpenGL stack, isn't this likely to be better in the long run despite the short-term pain?
Re: Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL
#43And didn't implement Vulkan either. Typical Apple.
Re: Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL
#44Ugggggh. As if graphics support on macOS weren't middling enough already. It's like they're trying to become as irrelevant as possible in that area. I could understand if they were deprecating it in favor of Vulkan. That would be in-line with Apple's history of aggressively pushing forward new standards. But by no means do they have the clout to coerce developers into their own bespoke graphics API that doesn't work…
>All they'll accomplish is further killing off the already-small presence they have in the gaming space.
In the AAA game space you mean. Else, in the casual gaming space, iOS is perhaps the most popular platform -- and the new integration effort means all those games will be able to run on macOS as well soon.
Re: Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL
#45What the fuck?! I don’t get it, why?! They want us to focus on Metal? I definitely need to but desktop now, plus I want CUDA! Ryzen 5 2600X with GTX1070 and I’m done.
Got a caller on hold, says his name is The Future. He wants to talk to you about Metal Framework.
Re: Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL
#46Ugggggh. As if graphics support on macOS weren't middling enough already. It's like they're trying to become as irrelevant as possible in that area. I could understand if they were deprecating it in favor of Vulkan. That would be in-line with Apple's history of aggressively pushing forward new standards. But by no means do they have the clout to coerce developers into their own bespoke graphics API that doesn't work…
> All they'll accomplish is further killing off the already-small presence they have in the gaming space. In the AAA game space you mean. Else, in the casual gaming space, iOS is perhaps the most popular platform -- and the new integration effort means all those games will be able to run on macOS as well soon.
Sure, but this makes it a right pain in the arse to bring over apps from other platforms.
Re: Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL
#47congrats, that's as cool as DirectX from a developer perspective.
Re: Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL
#48OpenGL isn't pretty, but it's at least cross-platform. And my impression was that OpenGL support is mostly handled by the GPU manufacturers, so I'm not sure how much Apple gains here by deprecating OpenGL. Requiring developers to use an API locked to a particular platform feels pretty hostile to me. Doesn't matter if that API isn't perfect, or even far from it.
>Requiring developers to use an API locked to a particular platform feels pretty hostile to me.
So like DirectX?
Re: Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL
#49OpenGL isn't pretty, but it's at least cross-platform. And my impression was that OpenGL support is mostly handled by the GPU manufacturers, so I'm not sure how much Apple gains here by deprecating OpenGL. Requiring developers to use an API locked to a particular platform feels pretty hostile to me. Doesn't matter if that API isn't perfect, or even far from it.
Although I agree it's a terrible decision for Apple only to have Apple-specific graphics APIs, please note that:
* Being deprecated does not mean that things will suddenly stop working. It will take a few more releases of macOS before this can be removed.
* Next to MoltenVK there is MoltenGL, which is an implementation of OpenGL ES 2.0 that runs on (edit) Metal [1]. That indicates it's at least feasible to wrap OpenGL applications in the future if necessary.
Furthermore, Apple wil drop support for all Macs that don't support Vulkan in this release of macOS [2]. Ouch, what a waste.
[1]: https://moltengl.com/moltengl/
[2]: https://9to5mac.com/2018/06/04/macos-10-14-mojave-supported-... (anything from before 2012 does not support Vulkan)
Re: Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL
#50OpenGL isn't pretty, but it's at least cross-platform. And my impression was that OpenGL support is mostly handled by the GPU manufacturers, so I'm not sure how much Apple gains here by deprecating OpenGL. Requiring developers to use an API locked to a particular platform feels pretty hostile to me. Doesn't matter if that API isn't perfect, or even far from it.
> Requiring developers to use an API locked to a particular platform feels pretty hostile to me. So like DirectX?
I sure hate it when Microsoft does it, but at least they have market share. Who wants to support Metal just to target the Mac? And last I checked I have the choice of OpenGL and Vulkan on Windows because these days MS doesn't control the hardware stack from top to bottom on their software platform.