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A simple mechanism could have been decisive for the development of life

phys.org

41–50 of 67 posts

Re: A simple mechanism could have been decisive for the development of life

#41
> Boekhoven explains the principle of phase separation with an analogy: "Imagine an old and rusty car. Leave it outside in the rain, and it continues to rust and decomposes because rusting is accelerated by water. Put it in the garage, and it stops rusting, because you separate it from the rain."

Is the writer sure about this claim? I've seen cars and bicycles in the garage rust due to humidity and condensation, especially from the day-night temperature cycles.

Re: A simple mechanism could have been decisive for the development of life

#42
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the existence of something is proof that it was created purposefully?

If the existence happens to be a perfect construct. Nihilism is not a pass to spew pseudo science.

LOL

Re: A simple mechanism could have been decisive for the development of life

#43
post #26

I find it fascinating that we have not witnessed self reproduction and evolution in a simulated world as of now. Unless we manually put it in of course. Any guesses when this will happen? Life springing up in a 2D-Automata or something like that? What size will it be? How many cells does the smallest self reproducing 2D-Automata need?

> I find it fascinating that we have not witnessed self reproduction and evolution in a simulated world as of now

"The evolution of self-replicating computer organisms" (1996) http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/ai/The%20evolution%20of%20se...

4096x4096 grid. 16 opcodes. Randomly seed the field. Observe string replicators at surprisingly high frequency. Much simpler than y'all think.

Re: A simple mechanism could have been decisive for the development of life

#45
post #41

> Boekhoven explains the principle of phase separation with an analogy: "Imagine an old and rusty car. Leave it outside in the rain, and it continues to rust and decomposes because rusting is accelerated by water. Put it in the garage, and it stops rusting, because you separate it from the rain." Is the writer sure about this claim? I've seen cars and bicycles in the garage rust due to humidity and condensation, espe…

It's the right analogy in the context of this research - the anhydrides survived longer when they formed a bubble, but still decayed.

A car in the rain rusts faster than a car in a garage. The sheltered vehicle still rusts... but the lower rate makes it feasible to maintain.

Re: A simple mechanism could have been decisive for the development of life

#46
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the existence of something is proof that it was created purposefully?

If the existence happens to be a perfect construct. Nihilism is not a pass to spew pseudo science.

Define "perfect construct" if you could please; take your time, I'll wait.

We're in agreement about nihilism, but neither is willful blindness.

Re: A simple mechanism could have been decisive for the development of life

#47

> This one neat trick can develop life, the void HATES it!

Oh how I wish we all weren't trying to abuse human psychological weaknesses to get cheap clicks and views. At this point I'm tempted to dump the entire Internet just like I dumped TV... Then I remember you can't live without it nowadays. Then it swallows me back.

Re: A simple mechanism could have been decisive for the development of life

#48
So how would this process work in the context of a self-organizing criticality (SOC) [0]? I've long taken that to be one of the more plausible mechanisms for getting to simple automata.

I guess this could work in conjunction with SOC, providing discrete stages for development. Interesting stuff.

[0]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-organized_criticality

Re: A simple mechanism could have been decisive for the development of life

#49
post #43
post #26

I find it fascinating that we have not witnessed self reproduction and evolution in a simulated world as of now. Unless we manually put it in of course. Any guesses when this will happen? Life springing up in a 2D-Automata or something like that? What size will it be? How many cells does the smallest self reproducing 2D-Automata need?

> I find it fascinating that we have not witnessed self reproduction and evolution in a simulated world as of now "The evolution of self-replicating computer organisms" (1996) http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/ai/The%20evolution%20of%20se... 4096x4096 grid. 16 opcodes. Randomly seed the field. Observe string replicators at surprisingly high frequency. Much simpler than y'all think.

Right, but then you need a universe where string replicators then proceed to evolve to the point where they paint the Mona Lisa and come up with general relativity. That might be the much harder problem.

Re: A simple mechanism could have been decisive for the development of life

#50
post #43
post #26

I find it fascinating that we have not witnessed self reproduction and evolution in a simulated world as of now. Unless we manually put it in of course. Any guesses when this will happen? Life springing up in a 2D-Automata or something like that? What size will it be? How many cells does the smallest self reproducing 2D-Automata need?

> I find it fascinating that we have not witnessed self reproduction and evolution in a simulated world as of now "The evolution of self-replicating computer organisms" (1996) http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/ai/The%20evolution%20of%20se... 4096x4096 grid. 16 opcodes. Randomly seed the field. Observe string replicators at surprisingly high frequency. Much simpler than y'all think.

Hmm... They created random computer programs and say that one in 10000 turned out to be self replicating.

But that is just because they gave them all the necessaray tools to do so. So the program only has to 1) Set pointer A to its beginning 2) Set pointer B to somewhere 3) Copy from pointer A to pointer B 4) Increase pointer A 5) Increase pointer B. 6) GOTO 1

If you look at the actual instruction set they use, it's even worse. They served the opcodes needed for replication on a silver plate.

That does not count. You could just as well give the programs an opcode that says "copyMyself" and say that creating life is easy because many programs used that opcode.

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