Trump Defends ZTE Concession After Sparking Bipartisan Rebuke • Hacker News Board

Re: Trump Defends ZTE Concession After Sparking Bipartisan Rebuke

#41

Post by beat » Wed, May 16, 2018, 1:42 PM UTC

fspeech wrote: post #36

beat wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have a better solution, something that guarantees that ZTE won't be making products for the US market that are designed to spy on Americans, I'm all ears.

This argument gets repeated a lot but I don't get the logic. If you don't like ZTE products don't buy them or even ban their use or import. ZTE doesn't just sell to the US market though. How is forcing ZTE out of business a proper solution to your concern about spying? Edit: Please note that I am responding specifically to the argument that the ban was "something that guarantees that ZTE won't be making products for…

"Enforcement" short of the death of the company has not worked before.

In the criminal justice system, if you are out on probation after committing a crime and then commit the same crime, you go right back to prison, for longer this time. They've repeated their crime while on probation, and thus get a stiffer sentence.

Besides the libertarian nonsense of "if you don't like ZTE products don't buy them"... well, one of the things they're doing we don't like is violating export bans to Iran and North Korea. For another, as long as they're manufacturing, their products can just get rebranded through a couple of shell companies and wind up in the US anyway.

I am unclear why you think it's so important to not hurt them.

Re: Trump Defends ZTE Concession After Sparking Bipartisan Rebuke

#42

Post by [deleted] » Wed, May 16, 2018, 5:49 PM UTC

chatmasta wrote: post #23

cthalupa wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It could well be that he’s the strongest negotiator we ever had in that position. So strong that he can't negotiate deals beneficial enough for him that he can afford to hold up his end of them, and instead files for bankruptcy so that he doesn't have to pay for it. He's taken such good care of all of the hard working US citizens he's interacted with in his days as a business man.

Do you think Trump played no part in negotiating peace between the Koreas? No president has been able to accomplish that in 53 years... Looks like good negotiation to me. South Korea’s foreign minister even credited him for his work on the deal (which is still ongoing). Hate Trump all you want, but fact of the matter is he’s a damn good salesman, marketer and negotiator. It’s how he won the primaries and the presiden…

[deleted]

Re: Trump Defends ZTE Concession After Sparking Bipartisan Rebuke

#43

Post by goalieca » Wed, May 16, 2018, 6:11 PM UTC

actsasbuffoon wrote: post #27

toufka wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Further, when it comes to other high offices, like judges, the appearance of conflicts are as problematic as actual conflicts. Such that care beyond standard conflict checks is required to prevent having to investigate every relationship and decision.

I've always found this deeply disturbing. By not putting his assets into a blind trust, Donald Trump made it easy for foreign governments to create the appearance of impropriety. This suggests that he may not fully grasp how dangerous it is to give someone the power to blackmail you. Anyone in public service should understand this, though clearly Trump isn't alone on this one.

Oh he did this on purpose. He clearly wants the money.

Re: Trump Defends ZTE Concession After Sparking Bipartisan Rebuke

#44

Post by actsasbuffoon » Wed, May 16, 2018, 8:58 PM UTC

goalieca wrote: post #43

actsasbuffoon wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always found this deeply disturbing. By not putting his assets into a blind trust, Donald Trump made it easy for foreign governments to create the appearance of impropriety. This suggests that he may not fully grasp how dangerous it is to give someone the power to blackmail you. Anyone in public service should understand this, though clearly Trump isn't alone on this one.

Oh he did this on purpose. He clearly wants the money.

Yes, but the money can't possibly be worth the punishment normally associated with what he's done. My net worth is dramatically lower than what Trump claims to be worth, and I wouldn't take anywhere near this much risk just to make money.

Mind you, I dabble in day trading. I do stupid, risky things to make money with far more of my money than is probably wise (I lost $4k yesterday, which sadly, wasn't that bad compared to some of my previous losses). So clearly my sense of risk/reward is a little off kilter.

That said, I'd never do something blatantly illegal (possibly unconstitutional!) in order to make money! Especially not if it represented 1/20th of my self-reported net worth! That would be a positively stupid amount of risk for such a small reward.

Re: Trump Defends ZTE Concession After Sparking Bipartisan Rebuke

#45

Post by fspeech » Wed, May 16, 2018, 9:56 PM UTC

beat wrote: post #41

fspeech wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This argument gets repeated a lot but I don't get the logic. If you don't like ZTE products don't buy them or even ban their use or import. ZTE doesn't just sell to the US market though. How is forcing ZTE out of business a proper solution to your concern about spying? Edit: Please note that I am responding specifically to the argument that the ban was "something that guarantees that ZTE won't be making products for…

"Enforcement" short of the death of the company has not worked before. In the criminal justice system, if you are out on probation after committing a crime and then commit the same crime, you go right back to prison, for longer this time. They've repeated their crime while on probation, and thus get a stiffer sentence. Besides the libertarian nonsense of "if you don't like ZTE products don't buy them"... well, one of…

They will operate in one form or another that is for sure. All 75000 people are not just going to sit idle.

By being overly draconian you generate a ground swell of ill will against US suppliers. Everyone in China will be looking to replace their US components as soon as it is feasible.

For what is its worth, ZTE actually self reported the recent faux pas that led to the reimposition of the sanction. Even if they don't get any credit for self-reporting it shows that the threat of intrusive audits works. ZTE right now is a lot more under the US government thumb than any other Chinese tech company. If anything Chinese government should just let the corporate form die to end the humiliation. US on the other hand, by being the executioner, only ensures that ZTE will be replaced by another Chinese player not subject to the same supervision.