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Thomas Jefferson's Letter to His Nephew Peter

avalon.law.yale.edu

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Re: Thomas Jefferson's Letter to His Nephew Peter

#41

Post by patrickgzill »

jberryman wrote: post #20

Give up money, give up fame, give up science, give the earth itself and all it contains, rather than do an immoral act. And never suppose, that in any possible situation, or under any circumstances, it is best for you to do a dishonorable thing, however slightly so it may appear to you. Whenever you are to do a thing, though it can never be known but to yourself, ask yourself how you would act were all the world look…

You think slavery doesn't exist in the world now? What are you doing about ending it, then?

Slavery even exists in the USA - it's called the Internal Revenue Code; the only question is what percentage of the time while you are working, that you are a slave.

(Please note, I am not getting into what are usually called "tax protester" arguments.)

Re: Thomas Jefferson's Letter to His Nephew Peter

#42

Post by [deleted] »

patrickgzill wrote: post #41
jberryman wrote: post #20

Give up money, give up fame, give up science, give the earth itself and all it contains, rather than do an immoral act. And never suppose, that in any possible situation, or under any circumstances, it is best for you to do a dishonorable thing, however slightly so it may appear to you. Whenever you are to do a thing, though it can never be known but to yourself, ask yourself how you would act were all the world look…

You think slavery doesn't exist in the world now? What are you doing about ending it, then? Slavery even exists in the USA - it's called the Internal Revenue Code; the only question is what percentage of the time while you are working, that you are a slave. (Please note, I am not getting into what are usually called "tax protester" arguments.)

[deleted]

Re: Thomas Jefferson's Letter to His Nephew Peter

#43

Post by michael_dorfman »

jberryman wrote: post #33
benihana wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Talk to me when you don't apply current political and social ideals to pre-industrial revolution America 200 years ago.

How about Jefferson's own ideals?

To me, the surprising fact isn't that the man who wrote "all men are created equal" owned slaves; the surprising thing is that a slave-owner wrote "all men are created equal." Talk about having ideals that transcend one's upbringing...

Re: Thomas Jefferson's Letter to His Nephew Peter

#44

Post by slay2k »

waterlesscloud wrote: post #36
kenij wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no links, but I can tell you what I heard from my grandfather. Basically, yes, they took guns to school. Everyone did. It wasn't considered abnormal at all. They never had any problems with school shootings either. I guess if everyone has a gun, you'd end up dead pretty fast if you tried to start anything. After school, they'd go hunting and try to shoot something for dinner that night. If they couldn't get an…

My high school in the suburban south in the 1980s, people had gunracks in their trucks, often with guns on them. They couldn't come inside the building, but the guns in trucks were considered culturally untouchable at the time.

Thanks to all three of you for the insights.

It's amazing how strange something can appear when interpreted in a different social or cultural context.

Re: Thomas Jefferson's Letter to His Nephew Peter

#45

Post by Andrewski »

slay2k wrote: post #44
waterlesscloud wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My high school in the suburban south in the 1980s, people had gunracks in their trucks, often with guns on them. They couldn't come inside the building, but the guns in trucks were considered culturally untouchable at the time.

Thanks to all three of you for the insights. It's amazing how strange something can appear when interpreted in a different social or cultural context.

I for one find your (former) ignorance of the widespread nature of gunplay in America strange. Were you raised in a bubble?

Re: Thomas Jefferson's Letter to His Nephew Peter

#46

Post by pmiller2 »

slay2k wrote: post #4

Awesome read, though Jefferson seems to have suffered from the "these are facts because I said so" type of thinking. Here are some relevant quotes: "Sitting up late at night is injurious to the health, and not useful to the mind." "Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body, and stamp no character on the mind." "As to the species of exercise, I advise the gun. [snip] Let your…

Re: hunting

There are basically three methods of hunting. One is to sit quietly and wait for the animals you are interested in shooting to come by; the second is to try and sneak up on them (stalking); and the third is to go out and make noise to flush them out so you can shoot them. This last method is what's used for things like rabbits, squirrels, and birds (although for different reasons -- rabbits and birds typically need to be flushed out from their hiding spots and squirrels will just freeze in place a lot of the time when they hear something, which makes them really easy to shoot). Jefferson is probably referring to this type of hunting, which can often resemble a relaxing walk in the woods with one's dog.

Re: Thomas Jefferson's Letter to His Nephew Peter

#47

Post by pmiller2 »

slay2k wrote: post #27
simonsarris wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah this used to be pretty common, especially for schoolchildren for at least 100 years after Jefferson's time to "walk" home while hunting.

Crazy. To what end, food on the table ? This would also imply the children took guns to school. Am I the only one who finds this rather insane ? Also, if you happen to have any links on the matter I'd appreciate it.

> To what end, food on the table ?

Yes. People don't usually shoot rabbits, birds, and squirrels for self defense, you know. :-)

Re: Thomas Jefferson's Letter to His Nephew Peter

#49

Post by eitally »

metamemetics wrote: post #29
eitally wrote: post #2

It's amazing how much the wonders of technology and readily accessible information have screwed up the value many children in the past 3ish generations (my marker for the beginning of the decline is WWII reconstruction). A "renaissance man" now is a dilettante. In Jefferson's day it meant having both broad and deep knowledge. One could argue that the advances of science have made this impossible in modern times but I…

> "renaissance man" now is a dilettante. In Jefferson's day it meant having both broad and deep knowledge. Jefferson's estimated net worth is $212 million. George Washington's is $525 million. It seems like you are comparing the values of a notably intelligent and published subset of the upper 1% aristocratic crust subset of society to the general population today. Hardly a fair comparison. You are railing against pe…

1. Intelligence is a distribution -- I don't disagree, but I also believe 99% of the population never realizes their potential, and in a lot of cases the educational system is the cause.

2. Yes, technology is driving down global poverty, but in the already privileged world I don't think this holds true. Where people want to learn they will find ways to do so. Where they are apathetic, they will find ways to remain ignorant.

Re: Thomas Jefferson's Letter to His Nephew Peter

#50

Post by eitally »

metamemetics wrote: post #32
shantanubala wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't speak for him, but here's my opinion. Since most information is just a quick web search away, most people have no incentive to actually absorb that information. Since we are constantly overloaded with information (and we're always connected to those sources of information -- email, IM, SMS, the news, etc.), we have to be extremely selective about the stuff we actually absorb. In the process, we lose absorptio…

> Since most information is just a quick web search away, most people have no incentive to actually absorb that information. it's a moot point. In the 1700's we wouldn't have had access to the information anyway. Or even the money, time, and opportunities like aristocracy such as Jefferson had to buy books from London and study the smaller amount of knowledge available then. So rather than not having an incentive to…

You're correct, of course, but the fact that information is only a web search away has driven down the perceived value of formal study and demotivates children from learning. That was my point, not that Jefferson wasn't exceptionally fortunate himself. Jefferson's own regimented work ethic, however, was an outlier even amongst his privileged peers.
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