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SEC filing suggests MoviePass’ time is running out

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Re: SEC filing suggests MoviePass’ time is running out

#41

Post by vincentmarle »

In the Netherlands we have our own “MoviePass” (called Pathé Unlimited) started by the country’s biggest theater chain (Pathé) since the early 2000s, so the concept is definitely not new to us, I was actually surprised to learn that Cinemark didn’t have their own subscription model when I moved here since it worked really well in Europe (both for customers and for Pathé).

The reason why the model works for Pathé and not for MoviePass is because of 2 reasons:

- Pathé owns their own theaters, so they can run the subscription program at a loss, but make the money back with condiments sales because of the increased flow of visitors

- Pathé owns the most theaters in NL, there’s always one closeby. The subscription program is usable by the majority of the population because of physical proximity.

So for this to work in the US, the big chains basically need to offer this themselves. I hope that Cinemark will learn from MoviePass’s validation of the market (clearly there’s a huge demand) and undercut them by offering their own program. #lastmoveradvantage

Re: SEC filing suggests MoviePass’ time is running out

#42

Post by jsgo »

coss wrote: post #19
untog wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do know people who go to see the latest movies (particularly Marvel ones, Star Wars, etc.) more than once. I imagine MoviePass would only encourage that behavior. (but I agree that abuse probably has something to do with it as well)

I really don't see how theaters haven't caught on and started a subscription service of their own. Just an obvious way to get people to the theater (multiple times) and by snacks.

because the subscription service that would serve as the blueprint seems to be on a trajectory towards bankruptcy?

Unless you can get the vendors who sell theaters the digital film to reduce their prices for new releases, there is still an intrinsic cost to the movie itself that isn't going to be defeated by a small increase in snack purchases. Actually, I hear this being a big selling point (increased snack sales), but of the 5 people I know who use MoviePass, 4 of them sneak snacks in via purses. Anecdotal as it may be, I don't trust this reasoning to be a theater's savior either.

Re: SEC filing suggests MoviePass’ time is running out

#43

Post by slg »

emodendroket wrote: post #7

> When the company changed those rules to limit subscribers so they could only see a given movie once, no matter how long it runs in theaters, a support ticket stated, “we hope this will encourage you to see new movies and enjoy something different!” It turns out that was a blatant effort to cut costs, with today’s filing explaining that the move “enabled us to reduce our cash deficit during the first week of May 201…

Since MoviePass buys it tickets at retail costs, a single heavy user is exceptionally costly. Imagine someone who purchases a $15 ticket 25 times a month for a total of $375. MoviePass would need something like 40 users paying $10 a month who barely use the service in order to offset that single user. It therefore isn't surprising that MoviePass is making changes to curtail those heavy users. Even if only something like 1% of users abuse the system by sharing accounts or reselling tickets, that could be enough to sink the entire company.

Re: SEC filing suggests MoviePass’ time is running out

#44

Post by calbear81 »

... I was somewhat expecting this to be possibility so we frontloaded our movie watching to get our money's worth but also bought through the Costco deal as we expect Costco to cover if they did go out of business given that Costco has a generous return/satisfaction policy.

Re: SEC filing suggests MoviePass’ time is running out

#45

Post by banana_giraffe »

abnry wrote: post #4
dwighttk wrote: post #2

It doesn't seem to be the sort of thing that even has a chance of being profitable... The only reason to join is to save money on tickets, the only way they make money is if people spend more on membership fees than the tickets they buy.

Yeah, I wonder what the people who started the business even had in mind. Did they decide to just wing it long term?

Not that I have any insight, but I always got the impression that they were planning to get a significant fraction of the moving going public under their service. Then they could say "give us discounts or well take your chain off of our service" to the chains.

Re: SEC filing suggests MoviePass’ time is running out

#46

Post by rtkwe »

abnry wrote: post #4
dwighttk wrote: post #2

It doesn't seem to be the sort of thing that even has a chance of being profitable... The only reason to join is to save money on tickets, the only way they make money is if people spend more on membership fees than the tickets they buy.

Yeah, I wonder what the people who started the business even had in mind. Did they decide to just wing it long term?

The long term plan was probably to get a large enough subscriber base that they could get some pricing deal from a couple major theater chains. Combine that with some money from selling customer data and they thought they could get profitable and probably could.

Re: SEC filing suggests MoviePass’ time is running out

#47

Post by alistproducer2 »

File this under: DUH!!!! This service never had a chance in hell at becoming profitable. Pretty sad that so much money is thrown at obviously trash ideas like this. I'm pretty sure that money would be better spent funding companies that are working to solve real problems.

I'm just sad I didn't sign up to blow through some of that sweet, sweet free VC money myself.

Re: SEC filing suggests MoviePass’ time is running out

#48

Post by patmcc »

emodendroket wrote: post #7

> When the company changed those rules to limit subscribers so they could only see a given movie once, no matter how long it runs in theaters, a support ticket stated, “we hope this will encourage you to see new movies and enjoy something different!” It turns out that was a blatant effort to cut costs, with today’s filing explaining that the move “enabled us to reduce our cash deficit during the first week of May 201…

>>Getting rid of repeats saving 35% seems to point to some pretty widespread abuse. Who are these people seeing the same movie multiple times during its initial theater run?

I wouldn't be surprised if there were people (especially those that buy MoviePass, I'd expect them to be movie fans) that see big blockbusters two or three times. But yeah at 35% savings that's gotta be largely abuse.

Re: SEC filing suggests MoviePass’ time is running out

#49

Post by losvedir »

emodendroket wrote: post #7

> When the company changed those rules to limit subscribers so they could only see a given movie once, no matter how long it runs in theaters, a support ticket stated, “we hope this will encourage you to see new movies and enjoy something different!” It turns out that was a blatant effort to cut costs, with today’s filing explaining that the move “enabled us to reduce our cash deficit during the first week of May 201…

I saw Black Panther three times in theaters with my MoviePass because, well, why not? The only theater near me only has 5 screens (I live in a small town), so my wife and I end up with some repeat viewings.

That said, I love MoviePass but know it's not sustainable. I wish they had rolled out these changes earlier. Something like no repeat viewings, 8 movies per month, different price depending on where you live (tickets at my theater are only $9 normally), etc, could have made this thing much more sustainable, and still probably had most of the growth.

Re: SEC filing suggests MoviePass’ time is running out

#50

Post by adamc »

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #33
emodendroket wrote: post #7

> When the company changed those rules to limit subscribers so they could only see a given movie once, no matter how long it runs in theaters, a support ticket stated, “we hope this will encourage you to see new movies and enjoy something different!” It turns out that was a blatant effort to cut costs, with today’s filing explaining that the move “enabled us to reduce our cash deficit during the first week of May 201…

I've seen 3 movies in theaters in the past year - Star Wars, Greatest Showman, and Avengers. My wife, a Moviepass subscriber, has been to the movies some 60 times since December. She typically goes 30-40 times a year, it's one of her and her friends' favorite hobbies. You might go to coffee or the bar, I might go to the park or the gym, she and her friends love going to the movies. It's just a thing to do for a coupl…

> The problem is, it's super easy to do the math on whether or not you would have spent more on tickets than moviepass.

This is the crux of the problem, I think. People who see one movie a month are not going to buy it. So they need to be profitable for high-usage customers. Unless they are getting incredible discounts... just not going to work.

For it to make sense, there need to be some restrictions -- e.g., only Sunday through Thursday nights (times when fewer people go to the movies... whatever they might be). But then a lot of people like me, who are too busy to go at that time, will skip it.

If you want me to over-pay for an option, it needs to have some intangible value. For example, if buying a moviepass gave me X times a month that someone else could come "free"... I might value that above market cost, because I could tell others "don't sweat it, it's free" and get friends to come along without feeling I'm pressuring them to spend a lot of money.

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