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NYC Renters Paid Extra $616M Thanks to Airbnb, Study Says

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Re: NYC Renters Paid Extra $616M Thanks to Airbnb, Study Says

#41

Is there really much evidence that the majority of Airbnb properties would otherwise be traditional "12 month lease" rental apartments if it were not for Airbnb. I mean, I'm sure there are a few, but if I'm a landlord, why would I give up having a stable tenant paying market rate rent for 12 months at a time for essentially managing a hotel room? Sure, the 'rent per day' is going to be a lot better with the hotel roo…

I'm guessing a lot of the Airbnb rentals are just those traditional sublets showing up in an easy to quantify form.

This not true for NYC. There's always demand for rooms in NYC with quick turnover. There's always real estate speculators with empty rooms.

In the end, you really answered your own question:

the 'rent per day' is going to be a lot better with the hotel room model

You're right, it is a different business to manage, and maybe you're after less risk/more passive income as a landlord, but you can't make that assumption for everyone. Plus, AirBNB takes care of most of the paperwork.

Re: NYC Renters Paid Extra $616M Thanks to Airbnb, Study Says

#42
I am curious, doesn’t the legality of roommates also drive up rents? It seems like if roommates weren’t a thing, it would drive rents down simply because people wouldn’t be able to afford apartments in many cases without a roommate.

I am not suggesting a ban on roommates of course, but it does seem like there are a large number of variables that affect rent prices. We could argue that AirBnB constricts long term housing supply while roommates constrict long term housing supply for single or family renters as well.

If a one bedroom goes for $4000 and there are two roommates, that means the price the market would support for a single person is $2000. So without roommates, the market would have to adjust to the price people were able to pay: $2000. But then again, that could also restrict supply since there are more people competing for a finite supply.

My point is that while it’s convenient to blame AirBnB — the truth is far more complex. We also have to consider the effects of the extra income earned by owners — that income goes to buying things or investing, which, it could be argued, benefits the economy. There is also the question of how many visitors to New York actually can now afford to visit New York because of wider housing availability — if we drive up lodging rates, that’s less money coming into the city. If I have to spend $250 for a hotel vs. $150 for an AirBnB, that means I can buy more pizza, thus putting more money into pizza shops and supporting those workers. Additionally, if a hotel is $250, maybe I don’t visit at all, which would result in 0 economic benefit to the city.

The economics of this aren’t as sound-byte friendly as many might think.

If we want to be fair, we should also address how much additional rent New Yorkers pay due to rent-control and the housing illiquidity that promotes.

If the hotel industry is so concerned, then perhaps they ought to reevaluate their efficiency and pricing and reconsider their years and years of charging $10 for a bottle of water. Perhaps the city could also reconsider the occupancy taxes, sales taxes and all the other fees cities love to stick tourists with.

Tourists already pay sales taxes when they buy a meal. They buy products and experiences which generate significant economic activity, jobs and all the tax revenue that creates. But for some reason, cities see tourists as a piggy bank rather than the engine of economic activity they are.

Re: NYC Renters Paid Extra $616M Thanks to Airbnb, Study Says

#43
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.airbnbcitizen.com/airbnb-new-york-and-housing/

From that: They do not address the possibility that the atypical minority (which presumably is apartments used exclusively for AirBNB and not otherwise occupied by a tenant) might cause the $626M rent increase illustrated by the study. This paragraph seems to be a diversionary tactic, "No, look only at these facts".

> They do not address the possibility that the atypical minority (which presumably is apartments used exclusively for AirBNB and not otherwise occupied by a tenant) might cause the $626M rent increase illustrated by the study. This paragraph seems to be a diversionary tactic, "No, look only at these facts".

IIRC, NYC passed a law against this and Airbnb has bee cracking down on those types of listings. I think SF has a similar law as well.

I also wonder if NYC now charges any occupancy taxes in Airbnb like SF does. If so, the revenue collected should also be weighed against any increases in rent. I also wish the article had actual calculated how much of a per month rent increase the $600m figure resulted in. In a city as big as NYC, I don't know if 600m is a big deal or not.

Re: NYC Renters Paid Extra $616M Thanks to Airbnb, Study Says

#44
post #5

So, I'm paying an extra $68/month because of Airbnb. Alright.

$68 a month is easily 5% of income afters taxes for many people. In a country where we already spend an absurdly high percentage of our income on rent, this doesn't seem trivial.

This is NYC in the report. That's about $1360 post-tax which is about 32K a year which is a bit above minimum wage in NYC (around 12-13/hr). I respectfully suggest not living in the most expensive neighborhoods in New York City if minimum wage jobs are what you're forced to endure.

Re: NYC Renters Paid Extra $616M Thanks to Airbnb, Study Says

#46

Is there really much evidence that the majority of Airbnb properties would otherwise be traditional "12 month lease" rental apartments if it were not for Airbnb. I mean, I'm sure there are a few, but if I'm a landlord, why would I give up having a stable tenant paying market rate rent for 12 months at a time for essentially managing a hotel room? Sure, the 'rent per day' is going to be a lot better with the hotel roo…

I'm not from NYC, not even from the US, but here are some reasons for locals to do that:

1) More money. Yes, stability is nice and all, and managing the reservations is annoying and/or expensive, but if the difference is big, people will choose it.

2) Renter-friendly laws. Here, if that stable leaser stops paying, it's a pain in the ass to get them out - you have to sue them in small claims court, and then have to go to another court to get an eviction order, which finally lets you kick them out. An Airbnb guest is only there for a few days, and after that they become a trespasser.

Rent stabilization rules may also prevent you from raising them as much as you could (though this is more a problem for longer than 12 month leases).

3) Fun. Some people I know really enjoy interacting with the guests and showing them around town :)

Re: NYC Renters Paid Extra $616M Thanks to Airbnb, Study Says

#47
post #5

So, I'm paying an extra $68/month because of Airbnb. Alright.

$68 a month is easily 5% of income afters taxes for many people. In a country where we already spend an absurdly high percentage of our income on rent, this doesn't seem trivial.

The $68/mo figure is off by a factor of 7.5, as far as I can tell. It's actually ~$109/year per resident.

Re: NYC Renters Paid Extra $616M Thanks to Airbnb, Study Says

#49

People wanted disruption ... well that's what you get. Economics of capitalism at work.

Be careful what you wish for, especially if wishing for profit over anyone's well being or if wishing for disruption over sustainability. I hypothesize an antidote to capitalism could be collaboratively learning how to sustainably contribute to all life's needs together through science, art, and love. I'm very interested in picking apart this hypothesis. If you (the person reading this) disagree, would you be willing…

Profit creates well-being. Without profit, the economy stops.
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