Seriously? LLVM supporting minorities means that you have to leave? I cannot fathom how trying to be inclusive should matter to anyone - it does not diminish you in any way to offer a hand up to others. I work in games. I have never been to GDC or PAX while I have seen many women get funding to go there on the basis of being a female in games. That isn't an attack on me personally - it's an attempt to work against historical inertia. And it's great. My industry needs to change and we are better for having a broader range of voices heard. If this guy thinks that helping others is such a burden, then really, I struggle to muster any sympathy for him.
I am leaving llvm
41–50 of 145 posts
Re: I am leaving llvm
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
This comment made me think that someone had disparaged them for their political beliefs or religion, but after reading that doesn't seem to have happened, unless they left it out for some reason, but that would be odd. In fact, if I understand the letter correctly, the straw that broke OP's back was this: > https://www.outreachy.org/apply/eligibility/ To which I say... really? Ok, that's too bad that you don't want t…
I do not know how that looks to other people but to me these rules look both sexist and racist.
To me it looks like trying to give a hand up to minorities. Do you look at tech and say "man, if only the white guys could catch a break..."?
Re: I am leaving llvm
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
Also not obvious or noticeable from a position of privilege: many, many white men have no opportunities or privilege and thus are discriminated against for simply being the same race and gender as a very thin slice of upperclass society.
While it is true that many white men come from a background where, for any number of reasons, they are not afforded the same opportunities as, say, a white boy from Cupertino, they are still given opportunities and privilege because they were lucky enough to be born a white man. I know this first-hand because I grew up in a rural farming community in Vermont that was more than 95% white and poverty-stricken. Of cours…
Were you part of the poverty stricken population? My experience has been poor white people are not accepted by our professional community.
Re: I am leaving llvm
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
This comment made me think that someone had disparaged them for their political beliefs or religion, but after reading that doesn't seem to have happened, unless they left it out for some reason, but that would be odd. In fact, if I understand the letter correctly, the straw that broke OP's back was this: > https://www.outreachy.org/apply/eligibility/ To which I say... really? Ok, that's too bad that you don't want t…
I do not know how that looks to other people but to me these rules look both sexist and racist.
As someone who would qualify for the linked program, I agree. A lot of words just to say "no Asians allowed".
Re: I am leaving llvm
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
This. The point of these policies is that we might be missing some fucking amazing talent and not know just because of historical reasons.
Is something that happened in 1864 or 1964 going to prevent you from identifying a good engineer in front of you?
Whatever the root cause, the predominance of white males (of which I am one) in tech shows that there is a lack of representation of various groups. This ought to be blindingly obvious
Re: I am leaving llvm
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
I, too, dream of a world where I can work with smart people without regard to their race, sexuality, gender, whatever, but it is naive to think that we are already living in that world. Like it or not, the entire system is stacked against minorities in ways that aren't even obvious or noticeable from a position of privilege. I work as an engineer in an office of 120 people in the East Bay. There are three black peopl…
Also not obvious or noticeable from a position of privilege: many, many white men have no opportunities or privilege and thus are discriminated against for simply being the same race and gender as a very thin slice of upperclass society.
I'm a white guy who was born into a poor, solo parent family situation. I still had privilege due to my colour. Example: no-one ever looked at me and wondered whether I was going to steal something from their shop just on the basis of my skin colour. When I went to school, no-one discouraged me from high-level achievement or assumed that I should do sports based on my colour (and where I come from, this definitely happens to people)
I'm a little peeved at people dismissing their privilege just because their life wasn't perfect. That's not what privilege means.
Re: I am leaving llvm
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
It sounds like you're angry because you want the autonomy to choose not to think about social justice issues (at least at work), and you feel like that choice is being taken away from you by people who enact things like codes of conduct. Now it's institutionally everyone's responsibility to think about these things, so if I want to be part of this institution, I no longer have this choice. Is that right? What do you…
I am some of those things, and I want that fact to be utterly ignored in a professional context. Someone who is unintentionally unkind will receive a quiet word better than a hundred codes of conduct. That's how you change hearts and minds.
I agree that codes of conduct aren't an effective way of changing hearts and minds.
I wonder if you think that CoCs -- or more generally, rules -- have other legitimate purposes?
Re: I am leaving llvm
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is something that happened in 1864 or 1964 going to prevent you from identifying a good engineer in front of you?
Whatever the root cause, the predominance of white males (of which I am one) in tech shows that there is a lack of representation of various groups. This ought to be blindingly obvious
> Whatever the root cause, the predominance of white males (of which I am one) in tech shows that there is a lack of representation of various groups. This ought to be blindingly obvious
What I am well and truly fed up with is the implication that it is pernicious behavior on the part of white males that is responsible for this state of affairs. And that's not necessarily relevant to this particular SJW dustup, but in general it is what's implied, when it's not stated explicitly (as it often is).
Re: I am leaving llvm
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
It sounds like you're angry because you want the autonomy to choose not to think about social justice issues (at least at work), and you feel like that choice is being taken away from you by people who enact things like codes of conduct. Now it's institutionally everyone's responsibility to think about these things, so if I want to be part of this institution, I no longer have this choice. Is that right? What do you…
>What do you think about people who say, I'm a woman, and/or I'm black, and/or I'm gay, and/or I'm trans, and/or I'm disabled, and/or I have a mental illness. I also just want to sit heads-down and code next to you and not think about what I "am", but unfortunately -- perhaps, invisibly to you -- people are doing things which prevent me from being able to do that. A code of conduct moves us a bit closer towards "equa…
So, you're happy if people get discriminated against but not for those people to ask you to think about it?
Re: I am leaving llvm
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
Wait, so this guy is standing up against what he sees as discrimination, and the argument is “ignore him, it’s not the bad kind of discrimination”?
Well, it really just shows a pernicious, probably purposeful misunderstanding of discrimination. Some discrimination is good. Children shouldn't be able to drive cars. Blind people shouldn't be allowed to fly planes. Adults are not allowed to compete in junior boxing leagues. Most people know this. Most people can also distinguish between this, and the systematic violence, physical and social, that society conducts a…
[deleted]