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Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

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Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#41

Post by nicktelford »

towndrunk wrote: post #25
toomanybeersies wrote: post #9

How can people read and hear about stories like this, and even possibly think it's OK or even normal? How do lawmakers in the USA convince people that this is acceptable? I have never directly paid a single cent for healthcare, and neither has anyone I know. When I had to get 6 stitches in my forehead at 2 AM on a Sunday morning, it cost me nothing. When my friend needed to get the tip of his finger reattached, it co…

What about Alfie Evens? UK said he must die. Parents were prevented from taking him to another country for care.

This isn't at all accurate.

There was no treatment for his condition beyond palliative care. He was on life support for the rest of his life, no matter what anyone did.

His doctors, whose duty is to the patient, determined that it was more harmful to artificially keep him "alive" (he was in a semi-vegetative state due to serious brain damage) than to disconnect his life support and allow him to die.

The offer of "care" in another country (the Vatican) was simply palliative care: they intended to simply keep him alive on life support indefinitely. There was no treatment for his condition.

His doctors, quite rightly, concluded that transport to another country would do him no good and would instead cause more harm.

The court case was between his doctors and his parents. The UK government had absolutely nothing to do with it.

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#42

Post by mfoy_ »

avs733 wrote: post #17
toomanybeersies wrote: post #9

How can people read and hear about stories like this, and even possibly think it's OK or even normal? How do lawmakers in the USA convince people that this is acceptable? I have never directly paid a single cent for healthcare, and neither has anyone I know. When I had to get 6 stitches in my forehead at 2 AM on a Sunday morning, it cost me nothing. When my friend needed to get the tip of his finger reattached, it co…

>How do lawmakers in the USA convince people that this is acceptable? One side of government is intent on breaking government and then using that dysfunction as a justification to create more dysfunction. The American political environment relies entirely on fear and creating fear using misinformation.

"There's profit in confusion."

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#44

Post by arcbyte »

avs733 wrote: post #17
toomanybeersies wrote: post #9

How can people read and hear about stories like this, and even possibly think it's OK or even normal? How do lawmakers in the USA convince people that this is acceptable? I have never directly paid a single cent for healthcare, and neither has anyone I know. When I had to get 6 stitches in my forehead at 2 AM on a Sunday morning, it cost me nothing. When my friend needed to get the tip of his finger reattached, it co…

>How do lawmakers in the USA convince people that this is acceptable? One side of government is intent on breaking government and then using that dysfunction as a justification to create more dysfunction. The American political environment relies entirely on fear and creating fear using misinformation.

I agree completely, although I highly suspect we would refer to different "sides" as the ones intent on "breaking government".

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#45

Post by Ensorceled »

I recently had a spot appear in my vision. Went to my GP same day, the receptionist called around to get me into a local optometrist who determined it was a detached retina, she called and got me into the local hospital as an emergency case. It was busy but I got my first treatment that evening.

The entire journey, my green OHIP card was all I needed, no insurance forms, no pre-approvals, no extra charges. 5 hospital visits with 3 treatments so far.

I'm flabbergasted when I talk to American friends and family and they all seem to think two things:

1. Canadian health care "is terrible, people die waiting in emergency rooms" 2. The US system is by far the best and that's why it's so expensive

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#46

Post by andruby »

c0nfused wrote: post #31
awicz wrote: post #11

“While we cannot comment on rates for emergency room services..." Why not?

Typically, the rates negotiated with the various insurance companies are basically secret. No one wants to share the data and there is great incentive not to. If you are in the insurer side, you think you have a competitive advantage compared to company Y. Sharing what you are paying per procedure is bad business If you are on the Hospital side, you want to make sure the insurers keep paying more, and publishing mean…

My personal opinion is that this should be illegal. Prices for the same treatment should be equal regardless of patient or insurer. The insurance repayment policies could differ, but at least the base pay won't seem completely made up.

Disclaimer: I only lived in the US for a year.

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#47

Post by avs733 »

chapium wrote: post #40
nickjj wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because most people in the US are brainwashed (note: I live in the US) into thinking paying ~$450 / month per adult for basic health insurance with high deductibles is a bargain because it "saves" them from $100,000+ hospital bills in an emergency scenario. Meanwhile they are still losing ~40% of their income to taxes if they own a small business with no insurance applied. The messed up thing is, the US also off…

“Brainwashed” is a bit harsh. We put up with this because it’s necessary to work within the constraints of the system.

I grew up on the coasts and for a long time would have believed that. People might hate the system but they will comply and work within it.

Living in the midwest has changed my mind, here people need the system to be true because it is the basis for their entire way of seeing the world. They listen to Rush adn to Fox News...and they accept it at a philisophical level. They rely on being told it because otherwise they would have to confront a lot of realities all at once. I don't see brainwashed as a slight, I see it as said with compassion and sadness.

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#48

Post by pavel_lishin »

arcbyte wrote: post #44
avs733 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>How do lawmakers in the USA convince people that this is acceptable? One side of government is intent on breaking government and then using that dysfunction as a justification to create more dysfunction. The American political environment relies entirely on fear and creating fear using misinformation.

I agree completely, although I highly suspect we would refer to different "sides" as the ones intent on "breaking government".

I think one side has explicitly stated it as their goal, hasn't it?

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#49

Post by chapium »

toomanybeersies wrote: post #9

How can people read and hear about stories like this, and even possibly think it's OK or even normal? How do lawmakers in the USA convince people that this is acceptable? I have never directly paid a single cent for healthcare, and neither has anyone I know. When I had to get 6 stitches in my forehead at 2 AM on a Sunday morning, it cost me nothing. When my friend needed to get the tip of his finger reattached, it co…

Why should stitches be free? Of course they arent, its being paid for under your country’s healthcare model. The cost is harder to see to the individual but its there. I’m all for universal healthcare but comparisons like this are deceiving.

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#50

Post by tinus_hn »

nickjj wrote: post #33
toomanybeersies wrote: post #9

How can people read and hear about stories like this, and even possibly think it's OK or even normal? How do lawmakers in the USA convince people that this is acceptable? I have never directly paid a single cent for healthcare, and neither has anyone I know. When I had to get 6 stitches in my forehead at 2 AM on a Sunday morning, it cost me nothing. When my friend needed to get the tip of his finger reattached, it co…

It's because most people in the US are brainwashed (note: I live in the US) into thinking paying ~$450 / month per adult for basic health insurance with high deductibles is a bargain because it "saves" them from $100,000+ hospital bills in an emergency scenario. Meanwhile they are still losing ~40% of their income to taxes if they own a small business with no insurance applied. The messed up thing is, the US also off…

The hospital can’t turn you down if you walk in with a medical emergency but they will charge you for it and if you don’t pay they’ll only patch you up until you’re no longer an emergency.
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