The Many Ways Google Harvests Data • Hacker News Board

Re: The Many Ways Google Harvests Data

#41

Post by Infernal » Mon, Apr 23, 2018, 3:54 PM UTC

lmkg wrote: post #34

lern_too_spel wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google's own recording of your location, for their purposes, cannot be turned off. Citation needed. Android even lets you turn off AGPS, which collects anonymous location data to update itself. As far as I know, this is not even possible on iOS.

I assume OP is talking about geo information inferred from IP Address.

Or cell tower... or WiFi SSIDs... or NFC payments...

Re: The Many Ways Google Harvests Data

#42

Post by 0xbadcafebee » Mon, Apr 23, 2018, 3:54 PM UTC

reacharavindh wrote: post #18

Haven't read the article because it is behind paywall, but it is not that hard to stay away from Google if you really care for it. Search - Use DuckDuckGo or startpage. Use Fastmail or any other email provider that is not Google. Watch Youtube videos without creating an account and clear out cookies regularly. Use Vimeo or some other service to host your videos for private use. Use Google Translate without a Google A…

To read past WSJ paywall, rename wsj.com to fullwsj.com, which redirects through Facebook and displays the full article.

Re: The Many Ways Google Harvests Data

#43

Post by jimmy1 » Mon, Apr 23, 2018, 3:57 PM UTC

40acres wrote: post #30

lamename wrote: post #13

On one hand, I'm glad to see popular concern for (or at least media coverage of) personal data privacy issues. On the other hand, I can't imagine this is news to anyone at HN, or anyone who's been following such issues for years. Ok ok, maybe the mass public is finally becoming more aware of these issues, but they're also even more heavily invested in the services Google/FB provide than when these revelations were fi…

I'm of an opposite mind. The tech world has known about these issues for years and nothing has happened. When the Verge or Wired write about these privacy issues the outside world really is not of much concern. But when the NYT and WaPo write about it, and when there are Congressional hearings about it changes is much more likely to occur.

Because many of us are employed to take advantage of the current situation of data proliferation. I am. I take your information and I pass it along to our marketing partners. I am a professional spammer. Your data is worth a couple bucks to us. We provide no real value (working on fixing this, atm). I get to feed my kids and take vacations as a result. I guess I will continue to float the moral line until actual harm comes out of this. We take data security seriously. We've straight up refused to partner with people who don't, even if it meant passing a lucrative deal. I have hope that as long as there are people like me out there, it will be OK, but I think the worst thing we can do is not talk about it / shame those that do make a living on ad tech to flee the work.

Re: The Many Ways Google Harvests Data

#44

Post by cromwellian » Mon, Apr 23, 2018, 3:59 PM UTC

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #33

sharcerer wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. Basically there are 2 issues : security,privacy. With any data vased company privacy eill always be a concern so they should try to assure users by giving them top notch security. Google does that. Their security is great. Facebook: a big NO. Just a question. Does google listen through the microphone? Some people show demos on youtube that they talk on phone about something or even say something out loud and th…

Google's security is as good as they cover their own rear on it. For instance, Google Chrome is hailed as being incredible at security, but they allow extensions which can read and modify the contents of every website you visit with little to no scrutiny. Malware is rampant and distributed directly from Google's extension market, but Chrome is "secure", because by definition, Chrome permits the extensions to be malic…

Firefox extensions can be malicious too, but this has nothing at all to do with backend data security, a red herring.

If you create an open system that allows users to do anything to their systems, you create footguns. I don’t see you whining that this is universally true for desktop computers as well.

Re: The Many Ways Google Harvests Data

#45

Post by wang_li » Mon, Apr 23, 2018, 4:00 PM UTC

redm wrote: post #3

Just some of the ways Google collects data [1]: Google Search, Google Fiber, Google Recaptcha, Google Translate, Google Adsense, Google Chrome (Safe Browsing checks etc.), Google DNS (8.8.4.4 etc.), Google Mail, Android Integrations, Google GSuite (Sheets, Docs, etc.), Google Drive, Google Analytics, Google AMP, YouTube So on and so forth. Of course, Google keeps most of this data to themselves to improve products an…

A more egregious way Google collects data on internet users is through their hosted libraries service. You visit some completely unaffiliated site which happens to use jquery or some other library and instead of hosting it themselves they have a script tag with a src=ajax.googleapis.com/...

Re: The Many Ways Google Harvests Data

#46

Post by kodablah » Mon, Apr 23, 2018, 4:02 PM UTC

40acres wrote: post #30

lamename wrote: post #13

On one hand, I'm glad to see popular concern for (or at least media coverage of) personal data privacy issues. On the other hand, I can't imagine this is news to anyone at HN, or anyone who's been following such issues for years. Ok ok, maybe the mass public is finally becoming more aware of these issues, but they're also even more heavily invested in the services Google/FB provide than when these revelations were fi…

I'm of an opposite mind. The tech world has known about these issues for years and nothing has happened. When the Verge or Wired write about these privacy issues the outside world really is not of much concern. But when the NYT and WaPo write about it, and when there are Congressional hearings about it changes is much more likely to occur.

> changes is much more likely to occur.

Be careful what you wish for. Weighing all of the possibilities I can imagine and the likeliness of their occurrence (regardless of intent), I'll take the status quo.

Re: The Many Ways Google Harvests Data

#47

Post by icebraining » Mon, Apr 23, 2018, 4:04 PM UTC

cromwellian wrote: post #44

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google's security is as good as they cover their own rear on it. For instance, Google Chrome is hailed as being incredible at security, but they allow extensions which can read and modify the contents of every website you visit with little to no scrutiny. Malware is rampant and distributed directly from Google's extension market, but Chrome is "secure", because by definition, Chrome permits the extensions to be malic…

Firefox extensions can be malicious too, but this has nothing at all to do with backend data security, a red herring. If you create an open system that allows users to do anything to their systems, you create footguns. I don’t see you whining that this is universally true for desktop computers as well.

I agree with you, though it should be noted that Mozilla does review the addons submitted to AMO, including - if this hasn't changed in the past few years - reviewing the code. I don't know how effective those are in preventing malware, though.

Re: The Many Ways Google Harvests Data

#48

Post by ocdtrekkie » Mon, Apr 23, 2018, 4:08 PM UTC

cromwellian wrote: post #44

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google's security is as good as they cover their own rear on it. For instance, Google Chrome is hailed as being incredible at security, but they allow extensions which can read and modify the contents of every website you visit with little to no scrutiny. Malware is rampant and distributed directly from Google's extension market, but Chrome is "secure", because by definition, Chrome permits the extensions to be malic…

Firefox extensions can be malicious too, but this has nothing at all to do with backend data security, a red herring. If you create an open system that allows users to do anything to their systems, you create footguns. I don’t see you whining that this is universally true for desktop computers as well.

The issue is that Google fails to vet those extensions. At all. Google has decided it is better to serve malware and blame the user than invest a modicum of expense on scrutinizing code that has the capability to capture all of a user's personal data.

It's reckless and it's irresponsible. And it's unique to Google.

EDIT: Also, re: desktop computers, if you check out my Reddit comments, you'll find I've been actively advocating for developers to support UWP sandboxing on Windows, and mostly telling off their excuses why their apps need full system access.

Re: The Many Ways Google Harvests Data

#49

Post by cromwellian » Mon, Apr 23, 2018, 4:08 PM UTC

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #36

ucaetano wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but does anyone see some media narrative happening here? WSJ is owned by Murdoch's News Corp. He has been in a anti-Google crusade for a while. 2009: https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2009/11/murdoch_vs_google... 2014: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/08/18/rupert_murdoch_says...

Why is it that no one ever suggests articles about Facebook's privacy violations are part of some anti-Facebook conspiracy?

Because there are very specific reasons to be suspicious of Fox or WSJ articles and if this anti-Google article had appeared in the NYT it would have been better and free of suspicion.

Anti-Tesla articles are another example of places to be suspicious of the source because a) day traders trying to short the stock have deliberately tried to spread damaging information and b) fossil fuel companies and regular car manufacturers have a vested interest.

That’s not to say all anti-Tesla articles are wrong, just one should be careful that you aren’t being a rube to propaganda.

Also, Facebook wasn’t dinged for collecting data, they were dinged for allowing a third party to scrape it.

The people using Facebook are quite aware of all of the stuff they’re telling FB interests, likes, groups they join, what they don’t want is third parties who shouldn’t know, to know.

I don’t care that Facebook knows what articles I liked. But I don’t want Cambridge Analytica to know in an individually identifiable manner.

Re: The Many Ways Google Harvests Data

#50

Post by weakgeek » Mon, Apr 23, 2018, 4:09 PM UTC

i find it interesting that no one points out how much data AT&T and Verizon have collected ... they know the location of your phone, which cell tower you are connected to, which stores you've been in and when, who you've called, who has called you, all of which can be cross referenced ... and there is no reason to think they don't where the IP they supplied you has been, to which websites you've visited, etc ... same with Comcast for broadband ... and the GOP last year repealed what privacy was in place on this ... if you combine that with the media properties they own, they also get a pretty good picture, across android, iOS and your desktop, of what a person does ... they also have payment data, a credit profile, possibly health info, possibly data on your kids, etc,

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-internet-trump/trump-...