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France’s government is building its own encrypted messenger service

reuters.com

41–50 of 133 posts

Re: France’s government is building its own encrypted messenger service

#41

I wish I would have seen a GitHub repo opened by the French government (à la Keybase) instead of an article from Reuters telling me that 20 officials beta-test an app developed by "we don't know who" using the taxes that pay my parents and friends. Show, don't tell.

So there is an open github repo, and I’m a bit surprised they’re not linking to it - I think this reflects more on the government comms processes than the FOSS side of things. On the Matrix side we’re seeing what we can do to help.

Re: France’s government is building its own encrypted messenger service

#42
post #29

What’s amusing is that foreign secret services are not the only ones snooping on French politicians. French secret services have a whole department (formally called RG) in charge of collecting files on every domestic public figure (own file is a interesting ritual read for a newly promoted minister of interior). The justice dept had also an interesting interpretation of attorney client privilege where it argued recen…

> If I was a tech savvy French politician I would try to use something that is neither in control of French authorities nor foreign.

What's the domestic app in France that comes closest to fulfilling that?

Re: France’s government is building its own encrypted messenger service

#44
post #32
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're talking about the metadata, yes, probably. It 's the same kind of eavesdropping capability you'd have from Signal servers (i.e: not much). Also: from what we've seen of Macron's team, they've proven that they have good-enough internal technical advisors; so it remains to be seen if they'd use a solution that can be eavesdropped.

Unless you can verify the deployed build against an open source code, whether the code is open source or not is irrelevant, you trust all the intermediaries. Which is ok for a corporate actor but probably not when you are a sovereign actor and know you are dealing with a keen NSA. How could you control that Apple or Google wouldn’t patch the app before it gets deployed or after it has been deployed?

A known Ken Thompson speech: https://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=358210 (has a link to the full text as PDF).

4 paragraph summary: http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/B/back-door.html

Re: France’s government is building its own encrypted messenger service

#46

This isn’t a case of NIH; France has adopted Matrix for the project, which is a lightweight fork of Riot.im combined with a large private federation of Matrix servers. The whole thing is open source (although not public yet, as it is very early days) and open standards based. At Matrix.org we’ve been providing some support to them :) It’s very exciting to see open government projects which actually grok open source a…

I would've liked better if they'd gone to extend XMPP clients to do audio/video, but this is ok as well.

Re: France’s government is building its own encrypted messenger service

#47
post #15

When tax dollars go into open source, it's just an endless chain of win-win-win-win-... News like this is just great. :-)

Yeah its a total win for the french tax payer who will spend a bunch of money on a service that they neither need nor want.

Re: France’s government is building its own encrypted messenger service

#48

This isn’t a case of NIH; France has adopted Matrix for the project, which is a lightweight fork of Riot.im combined with a large private federation of Matrix servers. The whole thing is open source (although not public yet, as it is very early days) and open standards based. At Matrix.org we’ve been providing some support to them :) It’s very exciting to see open government projects which actually grok open source a…

Actually the source seem to be already available here: https://github.com/dinsic-pim

Re: France’s government is building its own encrypted messenger service

#49
post #3

What about using Signal? Will they do something else then using the Signal protocol? If so, this might be either pretty expensive or could go wrong.

Signal doesn't work with desktop _only_ (without ever touching a smartphone). Matrix and XMPP does.

Re: France’s government is building its own encrypted messenger service

#50
post #32
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're talking about the metadata, yes, probably. It 's the same kind of eavesdropping capability you'd have from Signal servers (i.e: not much). Also: from what we've seen of Macron's team, they've proven that they have good-enough internal technical advisors; so it remains to be seen if they'd use a solution that can be eavesdropped.

Unless you can verify the deployed build against an open source code, whether the code is open source or not is irrelevant, you trust all the intermediaries. Which is ok for a corporate actor but probably not when you are a sovereign actor and know you are dealing with a keen NSA. How could you control that Apple or Google wouldn’t patch the app before it gets deployed or after it has been deployed?

I imagine you’d run your own OS with reproduceable builds all the way down.
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