Windows 10 works incorrectly with Large memory pages • Hacker News Board

Re: Windows 10 works incorrectly with Large memory pages

#41

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet » Mon, Apr 16, 2018, 6:38 PM UTC

oldmanhorton wrote: post #15

ThoAppelsin wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rather unconventional, but Windows 10 on desktop and mobile do have a Feedback Hub [1] where Windows 10 users are able to provide all sorts of feedback, either as a suggestion or a problem . All the feedbacks are public and users can freely vote them up to draw more attention on them. The more vote they have, the more likely they receive a response from the developers and also get the priority in the queue of issues…

As a Microsoft employee, I can say that that feedback is taken pretty seriously in most teams, especially if the description is good or if the problem recorder/screenshot tool is used. It's not all based on up votes.

Heh, yeah, I'm not buying it. How long has the "Windows 10 Start Menu stopped working" bug been around now? And the most consistent fix is still to just do an in-place reinstall?

Re: Windows 10 works incorrectly with Large memory pages

#42

Post by setquk » Mon, Apr 16, 2018, 6:46 PM UTC

Afforess wrote: post #2

For all the improvements to Windows that have come from Microsoft thanks Nadella & co., it is still rather shocking to realize Windows has no public bug tracker, and no real way to report these issues besides screaming loudly and hoping someone in Redmond hears you. It's even worse customer service than Google, which is quite an achievement.

Microsoft's customer service is non-existent even for paying customers and quality is declining. The development tools are getting less reliable each release. On large projects we're seeing tens of Visual Studio crashes a day. On top of that the ecosystem is a wasteland of abandoned projects and rapid semi-schizophrenic direction changes. It's difficult building a product on a moving target.

In once case we got Scott Hanselman's attention via HN on an issue but the outcome was clearly that a major part of SCVMM's support for Linux was a hack job and mostly abandoned and their own assigned team member didn't understand the problem domain properly.

Chuck it on github for open source lip service then ignore it. Add telemetry on by default. Make it a paid service. Anything to hurt the customer's trust.

And I'm going to keep complaining loudly about this until it changes.

Re: Windows 10 works incorrectly with Large memory pages

#43

Post by setquk » Mon, Apr 16, 2018, 6:51 PM UTC

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #41

oldmanhorton wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Microsoft employee, I can say that that feedback is taken pretty seriously in most teams, especially if the description is good or if the problem recorder/screenshot tool is used. It's not all based on up votes.

Heh, yeah, I'm not buying it. How long has the "Windows 10 Start Menu stopped working" bug been around now? And the most consistent fix is still to just do an in-place reinstall?

Yep. This shoots me in the face at least once a week. Also two other problems:

1. The start menu latency is now so bad you have to forcibly wait 2-3 seconds before typing your search after hitting the start button. This is on a stacked E5 Xeon workstation class machine.

2. Search is crap. I can type "visual" and visual studio doesn't come up!?!?

Re: Windows 10 works incorrectly with Large memory pages

#44

Post by gaius » Mon, Apr 16, 2018, 6:56 PM UTC

iforgotpassword wrote: post #27

leeter wrote: post #26

In reading the article it's clear this is not a bug, it's API abuse. The documentation for VirtualAlloc is very clear that Large Pages should be a one time allocation thing are not intended for general malloc replacement.

Api abuse should not lead to system crashes or global memory corruption.

I remember having plenty of problems with hugepages on RHEL running Postgres. I guess this is something that is actually hard to get right.

Re: Windows 10 works incorrectly with Large memory pages

#45

Post by libso » Mon, Apr 16, 2018, 6:56 PM UTC

metalliqaz wrote: post #23

MLR wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This happens to mine if I have an update pending, worth checking if it's an intermittent issue.

I've dug into it several times. First it was network adapter, which for some reason had a default setting to wake on any received packet (lol, wut?). Then it was waking because there was some setting deep in the system about waking up for scheduled operations. (not scheduled tasks, but timers within individual processes... why???) Now it started again but this time the power management tools report no reason for the…

An independently powered external HDD connected to your PC can also wake it up. I had this problem as well but haven't found a solution that doesn't stop me from using my current setup.

Re: Windows 10 works incorrectly with Large memory pages

#46

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet » Mon, Apr 16, 2018, 6:57 PM UTC

dragontamer wrote: post #31

So, as much as I hate to hate on somebody here, Igor is... somewhat unreliable with regards to these issues. Igor is infamous for disabling virtually every setting. 7-Zip has no ASLR, compiler-stack checks, or anything what-so-ever. Igor refuses to use a modern VC++ (Visual Studio 2015 and later have FREE versions available for open-source code) that would solve a lot of security issues and bugs. I'm not entirely sur…

And yet it is about 100x as useful as most free software that does. One wonders whether that is coincidence or correlation.

I don't know Igor, but if 7z is anything to go by then he probably uses VC--I'm guessing here--6 for the same reason Sean Barrett does: It's way faster and less bloated than modern VS. I'm also guessing he doesn't use those security features because they're largely ineffective and just complicate things and slow them down.

I'm sure many will argue the last point, but it's hard to imagine that that mindset doesn't play a role in 7-zip being as great a utility as it is.

Re: Windows 10 works incorrectly with Large memory pages

#47

Post by vardump » Mon, Apr 16, 2018, 6:58 PM UTC

metalliqaz wrote: post #23

MLR wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This happens to mine if I have an update pending, worth checking if it's an intermittent issue.

I've dug into it several times. First it was network adapter, which for some reason had a default setting to wake on any received packet (lol, wut?). Then it was waking because there was some setting deep in the system about waking up for scheduled operations. (not scheduled tasks, but timers within individual processes... why???) Now it started again but this time the power management tools report no reason for the…

I had same issue, no reason for wakeups at all.

Wasn't any device, like network adapter and power diagnostics returned nothing.

Solution: reset motherboard NVRAM. No more mystery wakeups!

Re: Windows 10 works incorrectly with Large memory pages

#48

Post by abandonliberty » Mon, Apr 16, 2018, 6:59 PM UTC

metalliqaz wrote: post #17

oldmanhorton wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Microsoft employee, I can say that that feedback is taken pretty seriously in most teams, especially if the description is good or if the problem recorder/screenshot tool is used. It's not all based on up votes.

Well then I'll report something about how my PC refuses to stay asleep after I tell it to sleep.

My screen keeps on coming back on rather than turning off. Got any leads on that?

Re: Windows 10 works incorrectly with Large memory pages

#49

Post by jve » Mon, Apr 16, 2018, 6:59 PM UTC

setquk wrote: post #43

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heh, yeah, I'm not buying it. How long has the "Windows 10 Start Menu stopped working" bug been around now? And the most consistent fix is still to just do an in-place reinstall?

Yep. This shoots me in the face at least once a week. Also two other problems: 1. The start menu latency is now so bad you have to forcibly wait 2-3 seconds before typing your search after hitting the start button. This is on a stacked E5 Xeon workstation class machine. 2. Search is crap. I can type "visual" and visual studio doesn't come up!?!?

Yeah, Windows 10 search is garbage. Sometimes it even wont find anything at all. Sometimes, searching for control panel items you may find not so helpful results.

Re: Windows 10 works incorrectly with Large memory pages

#50

Post by michaelmrose » Mon, Apr 16, 2018, 7:02 PM UTC

mgkimsal wrote: post #33

Afforess wrote: post #2

For all the improvements to Windows that have come from Microsoft thanks Nadella & co., it is still rather shocking to realize Windows has no public bug tracker, and no real way to report these issues besides screaming loudly and hoping someone in Redmond hears you. It's even worse customer service than Google, which is quite an achievement.

On the other end of that spectrum, it seems MS have had large teams of QA people doing proactive outreach for security problems. My family members have been contacted 6 times in the past 2 years, each time to let them know that MS had detected a security problem and they needed to help us install a patch immediately.

How would you distinguish between MS personnel and scammers calling your house to have you install malware?