Publishers Haven't Realized How Big a Deal GDPR Is • Hacker News Board

Re: Publishers Haven't Realized How Big a Deal GDPR Is

#41

Post by qznc » Sun, Apr 08, 2018, 6:21 PM UTC

URSpider94 wrote: post #27

EGreg wrote: post #7

What if I told you... (Morpheus photo) 1. Social websites don’t have to be giant, centralized communities too big to police themselves. 2. People need more tools to help them achieve things in the real world, rather than spending hours a day chatting about the real world online. 3. There are ways to make money online without ads begging you to click on them, and they involve real-world goods and services that your we…

All the things you mention are certainly possible, but if that’s truly what consumers wanted (judged by where they spend their time and money), then the market would reward companies that provided those services. Put another way, you can argue as much as you want that people want to eat salad and steamed vegetables for every meal, because it will make them thinner and healthier. And yet, McDonalds is still doing well…

In other words: People get what they want, but not what they need.

Similarly: Short-term trumps long-term.

Re: Publishers Haven't Realized How Big a Deal GDPR Is

#42

Post by michaelbuckbee » Sun, Apr 08, 2018, 6:22 PM UTC

gist wrote: post #38

michaelbuckbee wrote: post #14

GDPR articles seem to be getting some traction on HN as everyone is trying to figure out: "Do I need to do something for this? Is so, what?" For a recent project I read (and translated to plain english) [1] every single article in the GDPR legislation and for our purposes it can be summed up as: "Treat user data like names and emails as if they were credit card numbers" AKA: be paranoid about keeping them, encrypt th…

> some traction on HN as everyone is trying to figure out: "Do I need to do something for this? Is so, what?" If you are big enough to have to worry about this you are probably a company with plenty of resources to think and comply with this. So it's hard to imagine how many readers of HN are getting their answers on HN (or similar). If you are small time nobody is going to come after you. Sure something could happen…

In general I agree with your assessment, that being said I do think that the GDPR is a decent set of guidelines for putting in place a system that respects user data in a way that clearly has not been happening.

Re: Publishers Haven't Realized How Big a Deal GDPR Is

#43

Post by yuhong » Sun, Apr 08, 2018, 6:22 PM UTC

The final version of my essay on a similar topic has been posted: http://yuhongbao.blogspot.ca/2018/04/google-doubleclick-mozi...

Re: Publishers Haven't Realized How Big a Deal GDPR Is

#44

Post by freehunter » Sun, Apr 08, 2018, 6:23 PM UTC

gist wrote: post #38

michaelbuckbee wrote: post #14

GDPR articles seem to be getting some traction on HN as everyone is trying to figure out: "Do I need to do something for this? Is so, what?" For a recent project I read (and translated to plain english) [1] every single article in the GDPR legislation and for our purposes it can be summed up as: "Treat user data like names and emails as if they were credit card numbers" AKA: be paranoid about keeping them, encrypt th…

> some traction on HN as everyone is trying to figure out: "Do I need to do something for this? Is so, what?" If you are big enough to have to worry about this you are probably a company with plenty of resources to think and comply with this. So it's hard to imagine how many readers of HN are getting their answers on HN (or similar). If you are small time nobody is going to come after you. Sure something could happen…

>If you are big enough to have to worry about this you are probably a company with plenty of resources to think and comply with this

You'd be surprised. GDPR is vague enough and just open to interpretation enough that there are many different companies interpreting it in many different ways. I'm a consultant and I talk to many multi-nationals and all of them have their own spin on it. Especially around the "except when necessary for security purposes" section. That right there is broad enough that "security purposes" can mean almost anything as long as you make sure your security team has access to that data.

Re: Publishers Haven't Realized How Big a Deal GDPR Is

#45

Post by paulddraper » Sun, Apr 08, 2018, 6:24 PM UTC

AlfeG wrote: post #20

nopriorarrests wrote: post #17

One-time users includes all one-time visits and all the visits where people have not done anything to give you their consent. This means you cannot load any 3rd party tools. All your ads have to be delivered via 1st party means (so no 3rd party ad code) and it cannot contain any personally identifying information. That is one weird claim. Let's count "one-time user" as someone completely anonymous -- no cookie, no lo…

But there is a lot of other PID with this visit - ip address, cookies, browser fingerprint

Noob question How is that person-identitifying information?

Seems like it's machine-identifying information. You can't tie it to a real-world name and email (which the top voted comment claims is the essence of GDPR).

Re: Publishers Haven't Realized How Big a Deal GDPR Is

#46

Post by ajeet_dhaliwal » Sun, Apr 08, 2018, 6:25 PM UTC

Assuming I understand this correctly GDPR basically make products like Mixpanel’s JavaScript (browser loaded) library and other similar products from other companies unusable since they are oftn setup to collect data (including IP addresses) on first visit. Adblockers make the data collected incomplete even if this wasn’t an issue.

Re: Publishers Haven't Realized How Big a Deal GDPR Is

#47

Post by freehunter » Sun, Apr 08, 2018, 6:25 PM UTC

Sir_Substance wrote: post #32

danso wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many users do you think are like you? Especially in the number of plugins?

Here's #2 running a pretty similar cocktail (ublock origin, umatrix, privacy badger, httpseverywhere, cookie autodelete and decentraleyes). There's dozens of us! Dozens! But more seriously, there's actually lots of us. You don't hear about us because we don't narcissistically post about it on facebook. We just block shitty software and move on with our lives. I have no stats for you though, because stats are usually…

But the statement wasn't "many people block tracking", it's "the majority of people using ad blockers are doing it for tracking and not for ads". That's a far different statement that is far harder to back up.

Re: Publishers Haven't Realized How Big a Deal GDPR Is

#48

Post by hexaz » Sun, Apr 08, 2018, 6:26 PM UTC

nopriorarrests wrote: post #35

guitarbill wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why can't I load some 3rd party tools? You can, you just need assurance that they're also GDPR compliant if you want to be GDPR compliant. If the third-party violates GDPR, but requires your website to run on (e.g. third-party JS, other types of beacons), I think judges are going to have a dim view on that, and so you can't simply claim that it's them, not you. (There may be mitigations, e.g. if you have a contract…

Interesting. I personally use uBlock and "cookie autodelete", which deletes cookies for all sites except the white-listed ones each 5 minutes, automatically. So if your interpretation is correct, and GDPR affects even completely anonymous users, I'll be seeing and clicking "consent box" each time I go read a newspaper or just do general browsing. Like the "we use cookies" stuff, but on steroids. EDIT: but still, I fi…

You can display ads, just not personalized ones. Might even lead to more static image or text based ads, which have a higher chance of not being blocked by users

Re: Publishers Haven't Realized How Big a Deal GDPR Is

#49

Post by paulddraper » Sun, Apr 08, 2018, 6:26 PM UTC

jh72de wrote: post #19

Still NSA and their likes do collect and store all this data, so effective privacy/data protection/anonymization is still a task of the users themselves and their client tech.

Is the US government GDPR compliant, or does it not do business with EU citizens?

Or are they granted an expection for being trustworthy good guys unlike these unscrupulous businesses?

Re: Publishers Haven't Realized How Big a Deal GDPR Is

#50

Post by guitarbill » Sun, Apr 08, 2018, 6:27 PM UTC

nopriorarrests wrote: post #35

guitarbill wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why can't I load some 3rd party tools? You can, you just need assurance that they're also GDPR compliant if you want to be GDPR compliant. If the third-party violates GDPR, but requires your website to run on (e.g. third-party JS, other types of beacons), I think judges are going to have a dim view on that, and so you can't simply claim that it's them, not you. (There may be mitigations, e.g. if you have a contract…

Interesting. I personally use uBlock and "cookie autodelete", which deletes cookies for all sites except the white-listed ones each 5 minutes, automatically. So if your interpretation is correct, and GDPR affects even completely anonymous users, I'll be seeing and clicking "consent box" each time I go read a newspaper or just do general browsing. Like the "we use cookies" stuff, but on steroids. EDIT: but still, I fi…

Of course you can serve ads, they just can't use any personal information or tracking unless people have consented. Ad blockers will still be a thing.

As for consent, you have to be able to refuse. A consent box popping up each time would be the dumbest way to do this, but not that different than those full-screen email/newsletter begging boxes we have now.