Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple’s New Ad Conversion Tracking Will Benefit User Privacy

robmaceachern.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 69 posts

Re: Apple’s New Ad Conversion Tracking Will Benefit User Privacy

#41

Post by gcb0 »

CaptSpify wrote: post #31
briandear wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there ANY evidence that they don’t do what their privacy policy says they do?

Yeah, there is: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-apple-icloud-insigh...

from downvotes on this, gotta love the fanboys take on those issues.

> > app steals user data

> jusy deny gps access or never install it

and then

> > apple throws chinese reporters under the bus

> they are just complying with local law.

like they didn't have an option of not doing business there.

Re: Apple’s New Ad Conversion Tracking Will Benefit User Privacy

#42

Post by CaptSpify »

GeekyBear wrote: post #39
CaptSpify wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, there is: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-apple-icloud-insigh...

That is proof that Apple follows local laws. Just like every other American company doing business in China. For instance, Microsoft. https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/china/china-overview-...

And?

A privacy violation via legal means is still a privacy violation. I fully acknowledge that we don't know what Microsoft does with our data either.

Re: Apple’s New Ad Conversion Tracking Will Benefit User Privacy

#43

Post by CaptSpify »

thecosas wrote: post #38
CaptSpify wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm extremely glad they did that, and I absolutely give them credit for it. But it only proves that they were willing to stand up to the FBI. It doesn't prove anything else about how they handle your data and privacy. I'm not saying that they abuse it, I'm just saying that we don't know what they do.

All we can do is look at the information so far and it indicates they care about privacy: https://www.apple.com/privacy/ and more specifically https://www.apple.com/privacy/government-information-request...

Well, that isn't nearly all of the information. That is what they say, just like FB says they they don't abuse your privacy.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-apple-icloud-insigh...

They have already shown that they are willing to violate people's privacy. That is useful information.

Re: Apple’s New Ad Conversion Tracking Will Benefit User Privacy

#44

Post by marricks »

jwegan wrote: post #37

This new SDK doesn't help advertisers or users. Being able to assess the quality of users coming from different ad networks is crucial for any advertiser to assess the quality of their spend. Some ad networks might generate high quality legitimate users, while others are fraught with click fraud, or low quality users. Since an advertiser isn't able to tell which users came from an ad, no advertiser will adopt it. If…

I see why advertisers wouldn't like it, but how the heck isn't it good for users? You don't even have an explicit argument for that point, just the implicit "it might not be adopted." You're a bit disingenuous with your claim.

As for your proposed system, it could work, but the advertiser might be able to deduce a bit as they track them through engagement. A black box seems like the best system for users, and if Apple can force that on to developers more power to them.

Re: Apple’s New Ad Conversion Tracking Will Benefit User Privacy

#45

Post by joshuamorton »

CaptSpify wrote: post #42
GeekyBear wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is proof that Apple follows local laws. Just like every other American company doing business in China. For instance, Microsoft. https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/china/china-overview-...

And? A privacy violation via legal means is still a privacy violation. I fully acknowledge that we don't know what Microsoft does with our data either.

Their specific question was if you had evidence of apple violating their own privacy policy. I'd agree that what they're doing is unethical, but it's not done secretly, and I'd expect that in China their privacy policy makes this clear.

Do you have evidence of Apple violating their privacy policy?

Re: Apple’s New Ad Conversion Tracking Will Benefit User Privacy

#46

Post by esturk »

marricks wrote: post #44
jwegan wrote: post #37

This new SDK doesn't help advertisers or users. Being able to assess the quality of users coming from different ad networks is crucial for any advertiser to assess the quality of their spend. Some ad networks might generate high quality legitimate users, while others are fraught with click fraud, or low quality users. Since an advertiser isn't able to tell which users came from an ad, no advertiser will adopt it. If…

I see why advertisers wouldn't like it, but how the heck isn't it good for users? You don't even have an explicit argument for that point, just the implicit "it might not be adopted." You're a bit disingenuous with your claim. As for your proposed system, it could work, but the advertiser might be able to deduce a bit as they track them through engagement. A black box seems like the best system for users, and if Appl…

Look at the OP's profile. Manager at Pinterest. Theres no doubt the attack is disgenuous because said individual have skin in the game.

I usually don't mind if they disclose it upfront. But to hide it and present an argument as neutral is dishonest.

Re: Apple’s New Ad Conversion Tracking Will Benefit User Privacy

#47

Post by ovao »

gcb0 wrote: post #41
CaptSpify wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, there is: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-apple-icloud-insigh...

from downvotes on this, gotta love the fanboys take on those issues. > > app steals user data > jusy deny gps access or never install it and then > > apple throws chinese reporters under the bus > they are just complying with local law. like they didn't have an option of not doing business there.

Technically speaking, they have the option. Practically speaking, they do not have an option.

Re: Apple’s New Ad Conversion Tracking Will Benefit User Privacy

#48

Post by woolvalley »

jwegan wrote: post #37

This new SDK doesn't help advertisers or users. Being able to assess the quality of users coming from different ad networks is crucial for any advertiser to assess the quality of their spend. Some ad networks might generate high quality legitimate users, while others are fraught with click fraud, or low quality users. Since an advertiser isn't able to tell which users came from an ad, no advertiser will adopt it. If…

From a pure app startup performance and binary size standpoint, it would nice to stop using Tune.

Re: Apple’s New Ad Conversion Tracking Will Benefit User Privacy

#49

Post by jack9 »

esturk wrote: post #46
marricks wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see why advertisers wouldn't like it, but how the heck isn't it good for users? You don't even have an explicit argument for that point, just the implicit "it might not be adopted." You're a bit disingenuous with your claim. As for your proposed system, it could work, but the advertiser might be able to deduce a bit as they track them through engagement. A black box seems like the best system for users, and if Appl…

Look at the OP's profile. Manager at Pinterest. Theres no doubt the attack is disgenuous because said individual have skin in the game. I usually don't mind if they disclose it upfront. But to hide it and present an argument as neutral is dishonest.

What attack? The Adtech Ecosystem is incestuous, corrupt and penultimately complicated. jwegan is technically correct and savvy enough to understand one of many problems with this kind of fluff announcement. The least of these problems is a strawman reaction that anyone who dismissed it, is a bad actor. New SDKs are born every day. Apple CANNOT PRESENT a new technology that isn't a variant of what already survives in the ecosystem (i.e. insufficient other than to add another paid product that doesn't work any better). If Apple wants to go outside the IAB standards, it's another attempt to "take over" or can only be used as an Apple "internal" tool.

Here's a disclaimer: I worked at multiple Adtech companies in senior engineering positions.

Re: Apple’s New Ad Conversion Tracking Will Benefit User Privacy

#50

Post by RKearney »

IBM wrote: post #2

>I can’t see Google and Facebook being thrilled about implementing support for this, but given the recent scandal involving Cambridge Analytica, Apple should have extra leverage to push them in this direction. If Apple makes it an App Store policy, what choice do they have?

It's also App Store policy to not lock built-in iOS features behind in-app purchases or subscriptions, yet Google gets away with it on the YouTube.app by only allowing background audio if you subscribe to YouTube Red.
Post reply on HN