Berkeley offers its data science course online for free • Hacker News Board

Re: Berkeley offers its data science course online for free

#41

Post by throwawayjava » Fri, Apr 06, 2018, 12:52 AM UTC

tomrod wrote: post #37

throwawayjava wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every graduate that doesn't find a high paying job in the field is an excellent candidate for the next level of education. 1. You really think Berkeley's top-ranked PhD program is recruiting people who couldn't find jobs? No. Not only can 100% of successful top-tier PhD applicants find jobs, 100% of them are strong candidates for the top echelon on entry-level jobs. If you disagree, go look up the people in Berkele…

Close to 100%, but not 100%.

This is sort of technically true. Modified statement, based on extensive person experience: ~80+% had such an offer in hand, and the remaining 20% either:

a) didn't bother applying but would've been shoe-ins, or else

b) knew very early (freshman year) they were research-bound and optimized for a non-industry objective function (but could've skated into an industry job of their choice given a shift in undergraduate career focus). E.g., couldn't pass a coding interview and no industry internships but have one or more top-tier publication in a hot subfield.

But (b) is kind of stupid to think about. It's like saying a successful lawyer would not make captain in the military. This may or may not be the case, but either way, who cares?

Re: Berkeley offers its data science course online for free

#42

Post by throwawayjava » Fri, Apr 06, 2018, 12:56 AM UTC

bhl wrote: post #31

bartart wrote: post #26

People at Berkeley view this class as kind of a joke. The average grade is insanely high and the topics are covered in much less depth than just the normal intro cs or stats classes. https://www.berkeleytime.com/grades/?course1=7765-all-all

The instructors have explicitly said, if you have previous CS or Statistics knowledge, the class isn’t for you. This is for people who don’t know how to program and haven’t taken a statistics course yet.

None-the-less, IMO parent's observation is important for purchasers of MOOCs. It's true for a lot of the very popular MOOCs.

Re: Berkeley offers its data science course online for free

#43

Post by barry-cotter » Fri, Apr 06, 2018, 12:57 AM UTC

analognoise wrote: post #33

barry-cotter wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can learn skills that get you a job from a boot camp they’re not stupid. The fact that Lambda School and App Academy don’t get paid unless you get a job and they still exist suggests rather strongly that they get people jobs.

Skills without the foundations are going to be useless in a technology shift or economic downturn. Also getting a job is great - how about keeping one, or advancing? It seems very short sighted; community college only takes 2 years. Your career lifetime is what, 45 years? The ROI is insane, why would you shortchange yourself?

I think you radically underestimate how useful work experience is, both in terms of what you learn at work, and in terms of actually having money, rather than not having any. Technology shifts happen all the time. Being able to keep up is a necessary skill but it’s a great deal easier to learn the latest JS framework if you know another one. Given the large number of degreeless programmers and the fact that CS graduates are a minority of working programmers I think we can take it for granted that neither are necessary.

The only boot camp grad I’ve spoken to personally had a degree in Human Genetics, did App Academy after deciding they didn’t want to do it as a career and got a Django job out of it, despite having no knowledge of Python. They had learned enough Ruby on Rails in three months of more than full time work to impress in an interview.

Community college is only two years? That’s half the time needed for an actual Bachelor’s degree, but radically less valuable than one for getting a job. There are two sensible reasons to get an A.A. or A.S., to get a job afterwards or to get the Bachelor’s that comes after. You need to pay for it but more importantly you can’t get a real job during it and you need to eat and live during it.

Even if a good boot camp is strictly inferior to a median A.S. in Computer Science the first can still be a better choice purely because it takes less time. Having known people with Bachelor’s in CS who can’t code I doubt an Associate’s is better.

Who would you hire? The boot camper with two and a half years work experience or the A.S. graduate with one? What if neither of them has a B.A. to go with it? What if both do?

Re: Berkeley offers its data science course online for free

#44

Post by codingdave » Fri, Apr 06, 2018, 12:58 AM UTC

resolaibohp wrote: post #10

jamestimmins wrote: post #5

I find it curious that there are so many courses for data-science related subjects, which superficially seem to cover the same material, and relatively few courses covering more traditional CS topics such as computer systems, networks, OS. I suppose it has to do with the market, but also feels like colleges are skating to where the puck is, rather than where it will be (or perhaps, where it could be).

I have also found this interesting. What I don't understand is that the amount of data science jobs are no where near the levels that people make it seem. I am not sure where all these people will end up working if they want to be a data scientist. There is not a need to hire huge teams of data scientists like you might for dev roles, it doesn't scale the same way.

Startups do not need a huge team of data scientists... but industry in general does need data analysts and this would certainly enhance the skills of that crowd.

Re: Berkeley offers its data science course online for free

#45

Post by mr_toad » Fri, Apr 06, 2018, 1:00 AM UTC

resolaibohp wrote: post #10

jamestimmins wrote: post #5

I find it curious that there are so many courses for data-science related subjects, which superficially seem to cover the same material, and relatively few courses covering more traditional CS topics such as computer systems, networks, OS. I suppose it has to do with the market, but also feels like colleges are skating to where the puck is, rather than where it will be (or perhaps, where it could be).

I have also found this interesting. What I don't understand is that the amount of data science jobs are no where near the levels that people make it seem. I am not sure where all these people will end up working if they want to be a data scientist. There is not a need to hire huge teams of data scientists like you might for dev roles, it doesn't scale the same way.

Every job that involves data in any way is being relabeled a data science job. Most of them are just generating dashboards and posters in Excel or Tableau for people who are data illiterate. I know many people with maths/stats/comp-sci backgrounds who end up in these sorts of jobs.

“Just add a bunch of green up arrows and red down arrows, your manager will love it” was advice from a co-worker of mine. Sadly, she was right.

Re: Berkeley offers its data science course online for free

#46

Post by ucarion » Fri, Apr 06, 2018, 1:06 AM UTC

jamestimmins wrote: post #5

I find it curious that there are so many courses for data-science related subjects, which superficially seem to cover the same material, and relatively few courses covering more traditional CS topics such as computer systems, networks, OS. I suppose it has to do with the market, but also feels like colleges are skating to where the puck is, rather than where it will be (or perhaps, where it could be).

You're talking only about the public + free MOOC stuff, right? I think it's reasonable for that to be biased toward less specialized stuff.

Internally, Berkeley definitely isn't based toward the intro-level stuff. Quite the opposite. But the most polished, rehearsed, mass-manufactured classes are certainly the gigantic intro-level ones everyone takes.

Re: Berkeley offers its data science course online for free

#47

Post by banned1 » Fri, Apr 06, 2018, 1:12 AM UTC

fma wrote: post #40

jamestimmins wrote: post #5

I find it curious that there are so many courses for data-science related subjects, which superficially seem to cover the same material, and relatively few courses covering more traditional CS topics such as computer systems, networks, OS. I suppose it has to do with the market, but also feels like colleges are skating to where the puck is, rather than where it will be (or perhaps, where it could be).

Because it sounds cool...I remember when I was applying for college (2001), nanotechnology and biomedical engineering was all the rage. Glad I stuck with electrical engineering.

I thought biomedical engineering still has a lot of potential to offer?

Re: Berkeley offers its data science course online for free

#48

Post by appleiigs » Fri, Apr 06, 2018, 1:15 AM UTC

jph wrote: post #8

Berkeley and the UC schools are making major strides in online education, including edX participation and on-campus projects. If you're interested in Berkeley and data science, there's an online masters program too. (Disclosure: Berkeley is in my client roster). https://requestinfo.datascience.berkeley.edu

US$65K for tuition

Re: Berkeley offers its data science course online for free

#49

Post by fma » Fri, Apr 06, 2018, 1:26 AM UTC

banned1 wrote: post #47

fma wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it sounds cool...I remember when I was applying for college (2001), nanotechnology and biomedical engineering was all the rage. Glad I stuck with electrical engineering.

I thought biomedical engineering still has a lot of potential to offer?

The people I knew that majored in biomedical engineering went on to med school... Probably one of those areas that is always in the news and science magazine but still too early to revolutionize life.

I remember when Dolly was cloned and we would have a whole new industry...

Re: Berkeley offers its data science course online for free

#50

Post by olympus » Fri, Apr 06, 2018, 1:28 AM UTC

throwawayjava wrote: post #41

tomrod wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Close to 100%, but not 100%.

This is sort of technically true. Modified statement, based on extensive person experience: ~80+% had such an offer in hand, and the remaining 20% either: a) didn't bother applying but would've been shoe-ins, or else b) knew very early (freshman year) they were research-bound and optimized for a non-industry objective function (but could've skated into an industry job of their choice given a shift in undergraduate ca…

Lawyers can commission directly as captains in the USAF (and probably other branches) as long as they are not too old and can pass the fitness test. I think they also have to have passed a bar exam in one state, but it doesn't matter which one. They can get up to $65k of student loans repaid and don't even have to go through the same basic training as everyone else.

So (b) is slightly less trivial than saying a successful lawyer would not make captain in the military because most lawyers are one conversation, a few signatures, and one oath away from being a captain.

So don't delay lawyers, join today!