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Zynga CEO: "Just copy what they do and do it until you get their numbers."

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Re: Zynga CEO: "Just copy what they do and do it until you get their numbers."

#41

Post by danilocampos »

danilocampos wrote: post #34
teej wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please remember that what you find enjoyable could possibly be different than what 40-year-old moms in flyover country find enjoyable. Also realize the latter group is what made Oprah, the Wii, and Zynga billion dollar businesses.

Anyone who takes enjoyment from exploiting their friends in the furtherance of a glorified spreadsheet needs a hug, a trip to the ice cream parlor, and a meatspace game of Uno. There may be a baseline pseudo-fun available in the current crop of social games. Most social games, though, are more interested in bare metal compulsion than truly meritorious, universally recognizable fun . You're really willing to sit there…

@mattdeboard

As a sincere answer... not really. All it makes me is better for me. And people who have a concurring viewpoint are also better for me inasmuch as we have shared values and my idealism (my self-righteousness?) makes values important to me.

Re: Zynga CEO: "Just copy what they do and do it until you get their numbers."

#43

Post by chegra »

I think the companies he copied should have had the vision to add money.

All they seem to be doing is simply find a game that has gone viral and copy it and add money so the viral effect can be much faster.

Point to note: When you have something viral garner more investment to get it even bigger, quicker.

Re: Zynga CEO: "Just copy what they do and do it until you get their numbers."

#44

Post by Keyframe »

Andrew_Quentin wrote: post #39
Keyframe wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, but this relates to a business venture where you can easily spot where there is a market. Thus, it is wiser to enter the market where you are sure there is one than breaking in new markets by yourself.

Well, it very much depends. If you are the new bakery guy in a street with three or four other bakers, you are entering a market of high competition. The other three bakers are competing perhaps at extreme levels already, whether through branding, building a loyal customer base by providing better customer service, better products, a nice environment, friendly bakers, and price certainly. Now, if you, the new kid on…

Maybe, maybe not. It was not my assertion anyways, just a proverb I have heard. :)

Re: Zynga CEO: "Just copy what they do and do it until you get their numbers."

#45

Post by teej »

danilocampos wrote: post #34
teej wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please remember that what you find enjoyable could possibly be different than what 40-year-old moms in flyover country find enjoyable. Also realize the latter group is what made Oprah, the Wii, and Zynga billion dollar businesses.

Anyone who takes enjoyment from exploiting their friends in the furtherance of a glorified spreadsheet needs a hug, a trip to the ice cream parlor, and a meatspace game of Uno. There may be a baseline pseudo-fun available in the current crop of social games. Most social games, though, are more interested in bare metal compulsion than truly meritorious, universally recognizable fun . You're really willing to sit there…

> You're really willing to sit there and tell me that you're comfortable with social game evolution stopping right now? This stuff really is sufficiently fun for you?

You seem to have a great vision for what social games could be. I cannot urge this enough - please go build that vision now. The industry needs innovation badly. There are huge profits to the person who can pull this off, and I hope that person is you.

But my message is this - Build Stuff People Want. Many people have fallen into this trap, myself included. I thought I could buck the trend, out-innovate Zynga, and make a truly fun game. But in the end I failed because I spent too much time in an ivory tower making the perfect game, and no time making an enjoyable product.

A great analogy is engineering brilliant software, but failing to build something people want to buy.

Inception was a success because Christopher Nolan is able to carefully balance the things that make a great movie with the things that make great ticket sales. It wasn't the best movie ever, and it wasn't the best selling movie ever. But a careful blend of both lead to success.

No one in social games today can do this. I want that to change.

To think that one can simply "made something good" is a fallacious line of thinking along the lines of "build it, and they will come". Fundamental understanding of what your audience wants is so critical.

I'm not saying Zynga makes good games. I'm not saying you should follow in Zynga's footsteps. I'm saying you need to understand what Zynga does right if you want to beat them. And if you think all Zynga does is "be evil" and "buy ads", you haven't been paying close enough attention.

Re: Zynga CEO: "Just copy what they do and do it until you get their numbers."

#46

Post by danilocampos »

danilocampos wrote: post #34
teej wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please remember that what you find enjoyable could possibly be different than what 40-year-old moms in flyover country find enjoyable. Also realize the latter group is what made Oprah, the Wii, and Zynga billion dollar businesses.

Anyone who takes enjoyment from exploiting their friends in the furtherance of a glorified spreadsheet needs a hug, a trip to the ice cream parlor, and a meatspace game of Uno. There may be a baseline pseudo-fun available in the current crop of social games. Most social games, though, are more interested in bare metal compulsion than truly meritorious, universally recognizable fun . You're really willing to sit there…

@teej

Very thought provoking. What a great conversation.

I wish I had a clearer vision on the next step for social games. I honestly do. Sadly I think it'll be a long, iterative process before that industry sorts out exactly how to make a genuinely compelling experience that fits into the very real confines and perceptions you described. Bits and pieces will shake out as true fun but it'll take time to see it cobbled together into a comprehensively non-crappy game.

My lack of imagination doesn't stop me thinking there's a better way, though.

It sounds like you really took a whack at this. I hope you find a way to do something with everything you learned. It's a tough problem that can touch a lot of people.

Re: Zynga CEO: "Just copy what they do and do it until you get their numbers."

#47

Post by ketanb »

jarek wrote: post #40
ketanb wrote: post #27

I attended a startup seminar where speakers were founders from highly successful startups. Their advice was: "First imitate and then innovate". It is a usual business practice to first copy what's working for others, then innovate to make it better and leave the competition behind. It makes sense specially in a web industry where it takes very little time to catchup with competition. Companies have to keep innovating…

There are a ton of number twos and threes on the internet. Quick sample: Bing, Yahoo!, Tagged...

If we look at sites like Facebook or Linked-in or any company building social websites/applications chances of finding number 2 is less. I haven't heard any Linked-In or Facebook competitor.

We do see number 2 like Bing, Yahoo etc because they are not startups. Bing is funded by Microsoft and Yahoo was number 1 sometime in the past and has enough money to self-sustain for a while. How long Yahoo will survive?

Re: Zynga CEO: "Just copy what they do and do it until you get their numbers."

#48

Post by cookiecaper »

danilocampos wrote: post #34
teej wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please remember that what you find enjoyable could possibly be different than what 40-year-old moms in flyover country find enjoyable. Also realize the latter group is what made Oprah, the Wii, and Zynga billion dollar businesses.

Anyone who takes enjoyment from exploiting their friends in the furtherance of a glorified spreadsheet needs a hug, a trip to the ice cream parlor, and a meatspace game of Uno. There may be a baseline pseudo-fun available in the current crop of social games. Most social games, though, are more interested in bare metal compulsion than truly meritorious, universally recognizable fun . You're really willing to sit there…

Obviously it's not about "exploiting their friends". You can block Farmville or Mafia Wars if you don't want to see updates about them. There's a cooperative element that a lot of people enjoy there; they enjoy bartering with friends for items and sharing the wealth when they have it.

Farmville is The Sims: Farm Life pared down to work in Flash on old computers. It is popular for the same reasons The Sims was popular and it appeals to the same demographic, but it is even more popular because Facebook has become a vector to involve _real-life_ friends and to allow people to get sucked into the game and play for a few minutes at a time.

It's a pretty simple formula, nothing really ground-breaking there. Some classic RPG elements + interior decoration + cooperation with friends + negligible chunks of time commitment to accomplish things = high appeal to certain groups. I find Farmville really annoying and don't play it (or any other Facebook games) but almost all females I spend time around do play it. It's more hit-and-miss with guys.

But is there something inherently immoral or wrong about this pattern? I don't see what it is. It's just a silly game; you might not find it fun to arrange animals and barns on virtual farmland, but that doesn't mean that there's something nefarious or bad about it.

Re: Zynga CEO: "Just copy what they do and do it until you get their numbers."

#49

Post by teamonkey »

Keyframe wrote: post #16
lee wrote: post #9

To me this sounds like Zynga just took an idea that was already out there, improved upon it, and executed the marketing/business side of things better than their competitors. The blatant art rip-off is evil, but the methodology of "taking something proven, and making it better" is not. Apple does this all the time, and I don't fault them for it. For the HN crowd who "can't find an idea for a startup", maybe this is a…

There is kind of a proverb related to business here, which loosely translated says something like: "In a street where there are several bakeries, it is wise to open up another bakery." edit: I remembered that I have heard another version, with a different take: "In a street where there are several bakeries, next business that will open up will be a bakery" - I actually like that one more.

Starbucks was/is notorious for a similar policy.

Re: Zynga CEO: "Just copy what they do and do it until you get their numbers."

#50

Post by moultano »

teej wrote: post #33
danilocampos wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and that's an important observation. I'm not willing to accept that it's impossible to create a legitimately enjoyable game experience in the confines of the short attention span Facebook model, though. Scrabble, for example, lends itself perfectly to asynchronous, light, casual play (cf Scrabulous, Words with Friends). But it's legitimately fun at the same time. You're rewarded for imaginative approaches to sol…

Please remember that what you find enjoyable could possibly be different than what 40-year-old moms in flyover country find enjoyable. Also realize the latter group is what made Oprah, the Wii, and Zynga billion dollar businesses.

Can we stop using the phrase "flyover country?" I and many others find it offensive. (Unless you're using it ironically, in which case, carry on, but I don't think you are.) Middle-aged women in boring desk jobs aren't that different in the center of the country from anywhere else. There are a lot of smart people and cool things to see there too.
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