As Facebook Struggles, Rivals’ Leaders Stay Mostly Mum • Hacker News Board

Re: As Facebook Struggles, Rivals’ Leaders Stay Mostly Mum

#41

Post by Eric_WVGG » Sun, Apr 01, 2018, 8:05 PM UTC

primitur wrote: post #28

Eric_WVGG wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The notion that parents are always or even usually wise and responsible, that seems like a very shaky foundation upon which to repair a culture. Homer Simpson “beat” Dr. Huxtable, after all, quite handily...

They don't have to be wise or responsible. They do have to have a desire to raise their kids with future-proof values. These are not necessarily the same thing. And .. Homer Simpson? Fiction, yo.

What makes you think most have a desire to raise their kids with future-proof values? What makes you think that most have a desire to raise their kids? These are absurd and (I hate to use this word) privileged assumptions.

And I attest that the Simpson/Huxtable thing is valid. Huxtable (and Ward Cleaver and etc) were a fiction that our culture accepted as truth. Homer is an obvious fiction whose message is "that thing we accepted as truth was a lie." In that respect, Homer Simpson is much more real than Dr. Huxtable or Ward Cleaver or any myth that parents are simply by virtue of having functional reproductive organs competent.

Re: As Facebook Struggles, Rivals’ Leaders Stay Mostly Mum

#42

Post by Zak » Sun, Apr 01, 2018, 8:07 PM UTC

harryf wrote: post #19

primitur wrote: post #10

The elephant in the room is not Facebook. Its the generations of people who have, over the last 10 years, grown up to assume that their personal lives are of interest to others, and wish therefore to capitalize/profit on exposing their life to strangers. This is going to be a much more difficult precipice to step back from than, say, the rampant piracy of things like Napster, and so on. We'll definitely have to push…

> And, in addition, we have to establish that parents should regulate their kids' use of online/social media tools in such a way that we reduce the devolutionary effect on human interaction that is occurring now. Basically: yes! But with lots of caveats. - Parents shouldn't be able to play Big Brother in their children's lives - it's important for all kinds of reasons, especially sexual development, that children and…

> we need to exercise collective wisdom on what social media does to children

You seem to be suggesting some sort of regulation. Since you weren't concrete and specific, I can't respond to that directly, but I urge you to keep in mind:

* Many things that are valuable to adults may be dangerous to children. Consider a kitchen knife, power tools or cleaning chemicals.

* With all the privacy concerns that are in the public eye lately, age verification, which is probably difficult to separate from identity verification, seems fairly unappealing.

Re: As Facebook Struggles, Rivals’ Leaders Stay Mostly Mum

#43

Post by TheSpiceIsLife » Sun, Apr 01, 2018, 8:19 PM UTC

primitur wrote: post #28

Eric_WVGG wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The notion that parents are always or even usually wise and responsible, that seems like a very shaky foundation upon which to repair a culture. Homer Simpson “beat” Dr. Huxtable, after all, quite handily...

They don't have to be wise or responsible. They do have to have a desire to raise their kids with future-proof values. These are not necessarily the same thing. And .. Homer Simpson? Fiction, yo.

The future is notoriously hard to predict.

How are we to know what future-proof values are, and how are we to go about instilling those values in our children?

One problem with children, despite our best intentions, is they tend to go on to create things like Facebook.

Re: As Facebook Struggles, Rivals’ Leaders Stay Mostly Mum

#44

Post by watwut » Sun, Apr 01, 2018, 8:22 PM UTC

Zak wrote: post #42

harryf wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And, in addition, we have to establish that parents should regulate their kids' use of online/social media tools in such a way that we reduce the devolutionary effect on human interaction that is occurring now. Basically: yes! But with lots of caveats. - Parents shouldn't be able to play Big Brother in their children's lives - it's important for all kinds of reasons, especially sexual development, that children and…

> we need to exercise collective wisdom on what social media does to children You seem to be suggesting some sort of regulation. Since you weren't concrete and specific, I can't respond to that directly, but I urge you to keep in mind: * Many things that are valuable to adults may be dangerous to children. Consider a kitchen knife, power tools or cleaning chemicals. * With all the privacy concerns that are in the pub…

Kids able to read and write enough for Facebook are remarkably safe around kitchen knife and cleaning chemicals. Teenagera are fully able to operate power tools.

Re: As Facebook Struggles, Rivals’ Leaders Stay Mostly Mum

#45

Post by primitur » Sun, Apr 01, 2018, 8:30 PM UTC

Eric_WVGG wrote: post #41

primitur wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't have to be wise or responsible. They do have to have a desire to raise their kids with future-proof values. These are not necessarily the same thing. And .. Homer Simpson? Fiction, yo.

What makes you think most have a desire to raise their kids with future-proof values? What makes you think that most have a desire to raise their kids? These are absurd and (I hate to use this word) privileged assumptions. And I attest that the Simpson/Huxtable thing is valid. Huxtable (and Ward Cleaver and etc) were a fiction that our culture accepted as truth. Homer is an obvious fiction whose message is "that thin…

>What makes you think most have a desire to raise their kids with future-proof values?

History.

>What makes you think that most have a desire to raise their kids?

Statistics.

> privileged assumptions

I think you've got a bit of hatred for this subject.

>Simpson/Huxtable thing is valid.

Fiction is merely an analog for the truth; in this case, a very minor, small part of the reality of parenting. No, Homer is not a good parent model. His character is more of an allegory for cynical irony than the reality, which is that a vast majority of parents - fathers - care very deeply for their children and want to see them survive whatever the future brings.

Anything less is the very apathetic, solipsism, we've been discussing.

Re: As Facebook Struggles, Rivals’ Leaders Stay Mostly Mum

#46

Post by kerkeslager » Sun, Apr 01, 2018, 8:44 PM UTC

primitur wrote: post #10

The elephant in the room is not Facebook. Its the generations of people who have, over the last 10 years, grown up to assume that their personal lives are of interest to others, and wish therefore to capitalize/profit on exposing their life to strangers. This is going to be a much more difficult precipice to step back from than, say, the rampant piracy of things like Napster, and so on. We'll definitely have to push…

Putting the focus on parents is a distraction. Obviously it's the responsibility of parents to monitor and regulate their childrens' internet usage. But that doesn't take any of the responsibility off of the social media companies for their attacks on attention and privacy.

Social media companies can't just prey on people and then say, "It's not our fault--their parents should have protected them from us!"

Re: As Facebook Struggles, Rivals’ Leaders Stay Mostly Mum

#47

Post by Zak » Sun, Apr 01, 2018, 8:45 PM UTC

watwut wrote: post #44

Zak wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we need to exercise collective wisdom on what social media does to children You seem to be suggesting some sort of regulation. Since you weren't concrete and specific, I can't respond to that directly, but I urge you to keep in mind: * Many things that are valuable to adults may be dangerous to children. Consider a kitchen knife, power tools or cleaning chemicals. * With all the privacy concerns that are in the pub…

Kids able to read and write enough for Facebook are remarkably safe around kitchen knife and cleaning chemicals. Teenagera are fully able to operate power tools.

Many, perhaps most are indeed. I think most teenagers are also able to use social media in ways that aren't harmful to them.

Re: As Facebook Struggles, Rivals’ Leaders Stay Mostly Mum

#48

Post by maxxxxx » Sun, Apr 01, 2018, 8:55 PM UTC

rco8786 wrote: post #2

Because they’re all doing the same stuff?

Exactly! Google, Twitter, Snap and others are exactly the same. It's exactly the same business models as Facebook's. The whole focus on Facebook is pretty misguided. Maybe it will hurt Facebook but there will be a ton of companies ready to jump in and do exactly the same or worse. In the end we need privacy regulation and make the business of selling customer data difficult to the point it doesn't make sense for most companies.

Re: As Facebook Struggles, Rivals’ Leaders Stay Mostly Mum

#49

Post by maxxxxx » Sun, Apr 01, 2018, 8:56 PM UTC

kelukelugames wrote: post #3

lol, what did you expect? I worked at Microsoft when the Playstation got hacked. They were like, "let's not say anything and attract attention from the hackers."

That's exactly the same logic my director applied to pentesting. If you don't test no vulnerabilities will be discovered.

Re: As Facebook Struggles, Rivals’ Leaders Stay Mostly Mum

#50

Post by Eric_WVGG » Sun, Apr 01, 2018, 8:56 PM UTC

primitur wrote: post #45

Eric_WVGG wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think most have a desire to raise their kids with future-proof values? What makes you think that most have a desire to raise their kids? These are absurd and (I hate to use this word) privileged assumptions. And I attest that the Simpson/Huxtable thing is valid. Huxtable (and Ward Cleaver and etc) were a fiction that our culture accepted as truth. Homer is an obvious fiction whose message is "that thin…

>What makes you think most have a desire to raise their kids with future-proof values? History. >What makes you think that most have a desire to raise their kids? Statistics. > privileged assumptions I think you've got a bit of hatred for this subject. >Simpson/Huxtable thing is valid. Fiction is merely an analog for the truth; in this case, a very minor, small part of the reality of parenting. No, Homer is not a goo…

"history" "statistics" oh bravo you just said a pair of words. Here, I'll do the same thing: "History. Statistics." Now who's right?

"hatred for this subject"? Sure. I know a lot of people who had shitty parents. I know a pair of brothers who committed suicide because their father molested them. Many of my friends hate their folks. My own are terrific, incidentally. When I say those are privileged assumptions, that's because I have been reminded numerous times that I had a privileged upbringing.

Which, by the way, entailed parents whose life philosophy was hands-off, which further points out how vapid the notion that "parental controls would fix social media" is.