Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

EU competition chief holds threat of breaking up Google

telegraph.co.uk

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 90 posts

Re: EU competition chief holds threat of breaking up Google

#41

Post by kuschku »

cf498 wrote: post #34
kuschku wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a simple trick known as asking the banks where Google keeps their money to freeze those assets.

And that place is called the US. This didnt even work when it was simply a question of having transnational companies on the level of facebook having to pay taxes.

And then there’s other solutions you can do.

E.g., seizing Google’s copyrights and patents, and selling EU usage rights for them. Or seizing the physical hardware, and selling them (and the software on them) off.

There’s many many solutions here.

In the past, european governments have already seized airplanes from airlines upon landing, and threatened to auction them off, to pay a single unpaid $500 ticket return fine.

Re: EU competition chief holds threat of breaking up Google

#42

Post by csomar »

I can understand the hatred many people here have toward Google, Facebook or other big gigantic life-controlling entities.

The step to remove Google dominance is to find, create and nurture alternatives. For example, I started using Fastmail. I'm using some of Apple products like the Calendar and Notes. I'm using Skype for communication.

So I'm diversifying a bit though they can engage in data sharing. This reduces the monopoly power of one single entity.

Blocking Google, Facebook or another big provider will not work and if it did, it can have severe consequences. Most people (and politicians) are ignoring the massive productivity benefits that Google search is bringing. It can be used for evil, but the productivity it brings is paramount.

You can't fight Google by blocking it or destroying it. There is a reason that Google is huge: It is magical and there is no usable alternative.

To remove Google monopoly you did what Google did for Yahoo or Bing: You build an alternative. It is possible to have multiple alternatives for search like for email or smartphones (though we have only two).

The reason we don't? Google won. Android/iOS won. Linux/Windows won. Everybody gave up and just accepted it. Now everyone is screaming of "regulating" these guys. Trust me. This how you get closer to your demise (politicians and current day governments) than to their demise.

Re: EU competition chief holds threat of breaking up Google

#43

Post by ocdtrekkie »

mehrdadn wrote: post #15
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU effectively has the authority to decide who can do business in Europe. So Google/Alphabet presumably could refuse an EU breakup order, but they'd have to more or less exit business in Europe, including all of their various offices there. Both a lot of profit and talent left on the table. Someone much smarter than me would likely have to determine whether stockholders benefit more from a split up company that c…

What happens to people's emails in Gmail if they exit business in Europe? Surely people won't just be cool with their leaders making them lose access to their emails? EDIT: I guess I didn't mean "what if Google was forced to do this overnight?", but rather I meant more like "couldn't Google make this backfire by doing this overnight?".

Let me ask you: If Google closed everyone's Gmail accounts overnight to make a political statement, even if the EU relented, how many customers would stay with Google after that? There are limits to how much Google can punish users for their countries' legal decisions without risking losing those users forever.

Re: EU competition chief holds threat of breaking up Google

#44

Post by [deleted] »

kuschku wrote: post #41
cf498 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that place is called the US. This didnt even work when it was simply a question of having transnational companies on the level of facebook having to pay taxes.

And then there’s other solutions you can do. E.g., seizing Google’s copyrights and patents, and selling EU usage rights for them. Or seizing the physical hardware, and selling them (and the software on them) off. There’s many many solutions here. In the past, european governments have already seized airplanes from airlines upon landing, and threatened to auction them off, to pay a single unpaid $500 ticket return fin…

[deleted]

Re: EU competition chief holds threat of breaking up Google

#45

Post by kuschku »

adventured wrote: post #10
jacquesm wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean like VW being called out in the United States for the diesel scandal was US sour grapes? Really, I'm all for symmetry with stuff like this if that is what it takes to get these giants to at least attempt to comply with the law.

Symmetry was fining Google. The EU fined Google $2.7 billion. What would symmetry look like from the US side if the EU starts demanding Google be broken up? Unfortunately the EU has no massive, powerful technology businesses to demand be broken up.

> Unfortunately the EU has no massive, powerful technology businesses to demand be broken up.

Maybe because the EU has working competition laws, so EU companies rarely tend to hold a monopoly in dozens of independent markets?

I mean, that’s the basic issue here, isn’t it? The US hasn’t had effective antitrust regulation for decades, which is why Google ever could grow to this size in the first place.

Re: EU competition chief holds threat of breaking up Google

#46

Post by kuschku »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #12
dcgudeman wrote: post #2

Honestly comes across as EU sour grapes. The "competition chief" should focus on the regulations that have resulted in low investment and slow innovation instead of trying to "regulate" American tech companies.

Which regulations have "resulted in low investment and slow innovation"?

Not regulations, incompatible regulations.

If you create a startup in SV, you can easily sell to the whole US.

In the EU, you’ll need to obey 28 different laws, 28 different standards, and file 28 different tax forms. This is currently the single biggest hurdle for startups in the EU.

The second, of course, is that people seem less willing to throw billions at risky concepts just so one maybe gets big enough.

Re: EU competition chief holds threat of breaking up Google

#47

Post by takeda »

citilife wrote: post #9
tbirrell wrote: post #3

Does the EU even have the authority to break up Google/Alphabet?

I don't think they really can. Effectively, they'd have to block Google in the EU. Otherwise, Google can technically just stay in the U.S. and sell services. Ad's don't have to be location based, pretty sure a lot of advertising is elicit materials (such as porn) anyway - which already may not be allowed. Unless you stop people from just heading to the top search engine in the world, they'll keep using it.

I say that blocking google in EU would actually be a good thing for a consumer. It would force people to try out alternatives (which do exist).

Google currently has a monopoly for search, email, maps (and many other services which I care less about) it is crazy that we allowed it to happen.

It's not too far fetch that Google pretty much owns the internet. If Google blocks you or your company you might as well not exist.

There never should be a single entity that has so much power.

Re: EU competition chief holds threat of breaking up Google

#48

Post by mehrdadn »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #43
mehrdadn wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happens to people's emails in Gmail if they exit business in Europe? Surely people won't just be cool with their leaders making them lose access to their emails? EDIT: I guess I didn't mean "what if Google was forced to do this overnight?", but rather I meant more like "couldn't Google make this backfire by doing this overnight?".

Let me ask you: If Google closed everyone's Gmail accounts overnight to make a political statement, even if the EU relented, how many customers would stay with Google after that? There are limits to how much Google can punish users for their countries' legal decisions without risking losing those users forever.

Not many, but if they see not being broken up as fundamental to their business model working (I don't know if they do, but I could imagine Gmail not making much money on its own might pose problems), it might not make that much of a difference for them.

Re: EU competition chief holds threat of breaking up Google

#49

Post by dmitrygr »

spython wrote: post #39
dmitrygr wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

High tax rate and difficulty of firing someone would be my two guesses

Difficulty firing someone makes people feel secure at work. Security is one of the essential things you need to be innovative. Desperation and anxiety doesn't drive innovation.

Perceived difficulty in firing causes much more cautious hiring. If I told you that the next car you buy, you'd have to use for 10 years with no options for a change, you'd certainly pick differently than you do now, knowing you could always replace it.

Re: EU competition chief holds threat of breaking up Google

#50

Post by flexie »

idbehold wrote: post #38
flexie wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be a very unlikely consequence of breaking up Google.

Oh, this could be a preemptive move by Google before enforcement of the breakup even happened.

Google may seem powerful and almighty to us now, but at the end of the day they would have to cave if - despite lobbying efforts - one of their major markets demanded a breakup.
Post reply on HN