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Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

techcrunch.com

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Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#41

Post by acqq »

qwerty456127 wrote: post #28

Of course it does and can deny it - isn't a user forced to grant the permission when installing the app? IMHO Google is to stop abuses like this on the Android OS level by means of allowing users to deny any particular permission an app demands and still install the app, encouraging users to grant/deny every particular permission consciously and forcing the app authors to handle denial of any particular permission gr…

Both Google and Apple should provide "middle" controls. Even if I grant the app "access" to my contacts, I want to be able to select "which" contacts and which fields.

E.g. if I use whatsapp for 3 people out of my 100 contacts saved in my phone, I want to be able to give to whatsapp only the access to the phones of these 3 contacts. Others should be invisible for whatsapp, if I want so.

And they should not get the addresses, birth dates and my notices about even these 3 contacts. They should not be able to see them, unless I explicitly want to allow.

I know, users are lazy, but at least the fine grained control and white-listing should be an option. Now it's all or nothing.

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#42

Post by zodiac »

jonathankoren wrote: post #22
Gaelan wrote: post #5

The Facebook blog post includes this screenshot [0]. That's definitely an opt-in, although I could imagine a non-technical person clicking through it without reading the grey text. Better than nothing. [0]: https://fbnewsroomus.files.wordpress.com/2018/03/opt-in_scre...

It is not "better than nothing," it is the minimum that is technically and legally required. The UI is intentionally deceptive. The text is deceptive. The big text says "Text anyone in your phone," which sounds great, but doesn't actually say anything about data sharing. The small low contrast text, describes what they're doing. They know that by putting it small and grey, most people wont read it. The buttons are de…

> People don't read the pages. People don't read the user agreements.

Then maybe "people" shouldn't act completely outraged when they find out that their call history was uploaded?

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#43

Post by Freestyler_3 »

tehlike wrote: post #26
Maro wrote: post #10

In the last days, FB stock has lost ~15% of its value (from $185 to $160), that's like 2 Twitters.. Next earnings call will be early May probably.

There will be a rebounce, if EFX is any indicator, and FB is a hotter stock with higher profit margin.

unless it takes a turn for the worse.

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#44

Post by nasmorn »

deely wrote: post #19
lucb1e wrote: post #8

I'm sure they had their "permission" on page 27 of the terms of service. This isn't news... My opinion is still that those terms of services are silly. If I ever do start my own business, one of the things on the checklist is to have a minimal, if any, terms of service, because nobody wants to waste time reading them, and 99% of what is in ToSes is in the law anyway. Except, of course, data collection beyond function…

And, what happen if some big comp asks you to 'polish' a bit ToS, to make it more 'lawyer style', because otherwise they didn't spent additional $ 10m on you business?

I got this objection once for a mere 100k. The most enterprisey client stalled negotiations for quite some time because we didn’t have long enough TOS. There was no issue with the content just length.

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#45

Post by zodiac »

pvg wrote: post #15
wakeywakeywakey wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you explain how permissions could be better achieved? Also, could you provide examples of platforms with good permission/security model?

It seems like it should be an obvious given that just installing an FB app on your phone shouldn't hand FB a record of all your phone calls and text messages. Which is what appears to have happened on Android and nowhere else. The sensible question really is 'wtf is wrong with Android' not 'who and how is somehow managing to do this better'. Nobody asks about cars that don't come with a face stabbing device nor write…

> It seems like it should be an obvious given that just installing an FB app on your phone shouldn't hand FB a record of all your phone calls and text messages.

Has it been established anywhere that this was not the case (i.e. that just installing the app uploaded all calls and text messages)?

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#46

Post by mehrdadn »

underwater wrote: post #31
lucb1e wrote: post #8

I'm sure they had their "permission" on page 27 of the terms of service. This isn't news... My opinion is still that those terms of services are silly. If I ever do start my own business, one of the things on the checklist is to have a minimal, if any, terms of service, because nobody wants to waste time reading them, and 99% of what is in ToSes is in the law anyway. Except, of course, data collection beyond function…

If you read the TechCrunch article you wouldn't have to guess where it was shown. There is a screenshot of the prompt that shows that the prompt and explanation "Continuously upload info about your contacts like phone numbers and nicknames, and your call and text history." Your solution of hiding this information in a minimal terms of service is strictly worse. My take away is that you can tell users exactly what you…

I got my contacts uploaded at some point despite always making sure to reject their prompt. I'm sure people will claim it was just a "bug" or I must have just mistapped (which I have no reason to believe was the case, but how would I prove this), but either way, it's oddly convenient how it works out for them.

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#48

Post by orbifold »

sdoering wrote: post #13
Gaelan wrote: post #5

The Facebook blog post includes this screenshot [0]. That's definitely an opt-in, although I could imagine a non-technical person clicking through it without reading the grey text. Better than nothing. [0]: https://fbnewsroomus.files.wordpress.com/2018/03/opt-in_scre...

This is exactly why I do not have any call/sms info in my FB data downloads. I read such stuff and deny the app these things. Btw. something I am required by law here in Germany. I would need written permission of every contact in my phonebook for this upload, before uploading. Same goes for WhatApp.

Hm, isn't it illegal to offer this option in Germany then?

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#49

Post by justonepost »

underwater wrote: post #31
lucb1e wrote: post #8

I'm sure they had their "permission" on page 27 of the terms of service. This isn't news... My opinion is still that those terms of services are silly. If I ever do start my own business, one of the things on the checklist is to have a minimal, if any, terms of service, because nobody wants to waste time reading them, and 99% of what is in ToSes is in the law anyway. Except, of course, data collection beyond function…

If you read the TechCrunch article you wouldn't have to guess where it was shown. There is a screenshot of the prompt that shows that the prompt and explanation "Continuously upload info about your contacts like phone numbers and nicknames, and your call and text history." Your solution of hiding this information in a minimal terms of service is strictly worse. My take away is that you can tell users exactly what you…

I think this should be amended to "don't do creepy stuff" in the cloud.

This is why encryption on our phones is so important. I want my phone knowing all sorts of "creepy" things about me (medical records, etc) so that it can be more useful. What I don't want is that information anywhere except under my immediate control.

Storing encrypted in the cloud is OK as well, I suppose, as long as the encryption key is only available to me.

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#50

Post by mverwijs »

underwater wrote: post #31
lucb1e wrote: post #8

I'm sure they had their "permission" on page 27 of the terms of service. This isn't news... My opinion is still that those terms of services are silly. If I ever do start my own business, one of the things on the checklist is to have a minimal, if any, terms of service, because nobody wants to waste time reading them, and 99% of what is in ToSes is in the law anyway. Except, of course, data collection beyond function…

If you read the TechCrunch article you wouldn't have to guess where it was shown. There is a screenshot of the prompt that shows that the prompt and explanation "Continuously upload info about your contacts like phone numbers and nicknames, and your call and text history." Your solution of hiding this information in a minimal terms of service is strictly worse. My take away is that you can tell users exactly what you…

Privacy is like eating your vegetables. Or doing those push ups eery morning. Given any excuse people will ignore common sense and the lizard brain takes over. Facebook knows this like no other. The outrage too comes from the lizard brain once it realizes the dangers of the situation it is now in.
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